NFT/Crypto Games

◉◉maru

I was very interested in NFT integration in gaming items for plenty of reasons (anti-piracy on physical goods, trade identification, the ability to reward user generated contents and creative gaming communities in a virtuous loop) but the whole ecological disaster implied by the energy required to sustain the ecosystem is a huge buzzkill.

Also the obvious upcoming step for sovereign states to keep control will be local currency taxation on NFC trading, which might then become a huge hassle on developers trying to include crypto in their games depending on how the new laws are written. I expect it will be the next big legal battle involving the IRS in the United States of America, for instance. I recommend this analysis from Deloitte if you are interested in the topic of taxation of crypto.

yeso

seems tough for something to enable to possibility of making money and to be a “game” at the same time. I mean it’s kind of at least a gig economy type thing at that point I think

Moon

Over a decade ago I checked out “Entropia Universe” a “free to play” MMO whose in game currency was directly transferable to US dollars at a fixed rate.

In 2005 a guy took out a morgage on his house to buy a $100,000 virtual asteroid and by 2010 his investment had paid off.

As you can see, at the time the novelty of “virtual transactions” of this size was enough to garner attention, but I have no idea what has been going on with Entropia Universe over the past decade. Frankly I’m surprised it still seems to be around, but maybe longevity is an upside of making your game explicitly tied to a real world currency.

I have a hunch that someone could learn a lot of lessons about NFT behavior if they took a closer look at some of the early experiments in virtual non-fungibles, like owning land in Entropia Universe.

Danimal

Moon that’s crazy stuff! I remember hearing some things like that talked about on the podcast.

That game reminds me of what this game Ember Sword is doing. Seems pretty crazy to me though… I couldn’t imagine spending $80k on in-game virtual property!

Video Game King

To be honest, I don’t really know what play opportunities blockchain technology could even theoretically open up. I can think of plenty of opportunities this opens up for publishers to control how players can engage with their games - anti-piracy, anti-hacking/cheating - but even those rest on the question of whether those ends justify the massive short- and long-term investments that cryptocurrency of any kind demands. Right now that doesn’t appear to be the case, and something tells me it’s unlikely to become the case before governments inevitably crack down on cryptocurrency and NFTs.

Also, I feel obligated to ask whether Bitcoin/Ethereum ownership is really this widespread phenomenon, and not something that’s highly concentrated amongst a small number of investors.

Danimal

Video Game King I guess I don’t know how widespread cryptocurrency ownership is, but it has definitely grown a lot. I see more and more places that accept it as payment, and more integration in payment services/platforms. Can even buy it on PayPal.

I can’t remember which country it was, but some country in South America was trying to make Bitcoin its national currency lol.

穴

I think of crypto as "energy-wasting ray-traced cookie clicker with kind of “real money” entangled in a pyramid scheme" so in my mind it is already a game. (a horrible game though)

Danimal

exodus I don’t entirely disagree! And definitely appreciate your perspective too. Like I said, just curious what people here have to say about it, and if anyone has actually tried playing one of these games.

Supposedly they have a lot of players in some areas of the world and this whole segment seems to be gaining some steam and growing (with some big money being thrown around too).

I thought this recent article about one crypto platform going into gaming was interesting:
Polygon article

On another note, I think everybody hates what Konami did with its IP’s and pachinko machines… is this new trend a potential threat to take other beloved IP’s and turn them into crypto games? I kind of doubt it… but there is this Capcom licensed Street Fighter Game

Edit: fixed link

Moon

One of the only people I knew personally with crypto used it to place small bets on CS: GO matches between professional teams, so I guess that counts.

I’ve always enjoyed Salty Bet, imagine if the money was real, people would start to take it insanely seriously.

That’s one other thing I wanted to mention, when you tie real money to a game, it heavily incentivizes cheating.

TracyDMcGrath

To put into perspective how much energy bitcoin consumes, the average bitcoin transaction takes about 1 Megawatt-hour of energy to complete. This is enough energy to power an average grocery store for 5 hours, or a residential home for about a month.

When China banned bitcoin mining, their grid load dropped by 8 Gigawatts. That’s around the amount of electricity demand of most US states, and more than some countries.

rejj

Danimal what do you guys think of this as a concept?

Both exodus and TracyDMcGrath have noted my same concerns on this topic rather well, so I’ll just add that I find the concept, in general, abhorrent. Sorry.

yeso

it’s hard to consider the topic beyond this ^^^

JoJoestar

Crypto and NFT have been getting extremely bad rep on the circles and ambients I frequent and although I sincerely admit I haven’t put the time to really understand the whole thing, I really trust my friends and the people that have told me the Crypto underworld stinks.

Only thing I know, by watching Feels Good Man (the documentary about Pepe the Frog), is that some dude became rich by speculating with… virtual memes, which honestly sounds terrifying and exactly like the postmodern late-capitalism end of times shit I tend to want to escape from, not get myself invested in.

So… I don’t know, maybe you guys can make me understand the whole Crypto affair better. Right now sadly it feels like the thing extremely sucks and is only accelerating us further into environmental catastrophe and all those nice nice things so… yeah.

Video Game King

JoJoestar Right now sadly it feels like the thing extremely sucks and is only accelerating us further into environmental catastrophe and all those nice nice things so… yeah.

No, that’s basically it. It’s basically speculation grafted onto severe environmental destruction. If you want a more specific example, though, I’d recommend this piece on how it’s manifested in the art world.

Danimal

rejj don’t be sorry! I agree with virtually everything you all have said on the topic. I didn’t really mean to delve so deeply into the environmental/ethical aspects… but on that topic: I have not seen any Bitcoin based games, and Ethereum is transitioning to 2.0 which will make mining obsolete and reduce power consumption by 99% or more.

Video Game King that “art” sure is a bunch of trash!

Also, just to be clear, I am not in favor of these games, and have never played any of them! If any are actually fun or a decent way to make some extra money, I would consider trying one… but in general I do believe it is all a bad idea and not a good direction for games to go.

At the same time we could all use a few bucks, and “investments” like crypto are much more reliable than actual gambling. You won’t see me playing cryptokitties though lol. The whole concept really is bad though, and I don’t like to games move in the direction of really any kind of monetization. Micro transactions, loot boxes, live-service, and gacha systems are all huge turn-offs for me.

dicegame

NFT’s nuts, is my stance honestly

goonbag

Danimal At the same time we could all use a few bucks, and “investments” like crypto are much more reliable than actual gambling.

With all due respect, this is simply false unless one has insider-trading-adjacent insight into what is actually happening in the crypto market, which involves the full gamut of criminal activity from white-collar investment scams through to straight up organised crime. It might be true that it’s not difficult for a savvy civilian to make a few bucks but that’s very far from reliable.

Gaagaagiins

Danimal I can’t remember which country it was, but some country in South America was trying to make Bitcoin its national currency lol.

Perhaps you’re thinking of Venezuela’s Petro?

Danimal

Gaagaagiins dang, I didn’t know about that one! Actually I was referring to El Salvador, which actually did make Bitcoin national currency! BBC Article

Gaagaagiins

Apparently El Salvador might also be trying to adopt Bitcoin as one of its national currencies too

Danimal

Gaagaagiins yes they did do it. They just haven’t made it through the 90 day period before it becomes active yet.

tanuki

Gaagaagiins it seems that the adoption in Latin American countries has to do not with its utility as a currency, but as a transaction medium for remittances that (for now) avoids US-imposed capital controls and the traditional money-changers (and secondarily, avoiding hyperinflation in the local economy’s currency, but they could use USD for this if it were not for capital controls so it’s mostly the first thing).