christian people, what does this mean

goonbag

exodus I reckon you can just choose the stuff you like and do it, and keep those rituals because the doing of them is important rather than the godliness of them or whatever. My buddy held a funeral for Kermit the frog, with roses, a coffin, a eulogy, a burial, and a wake, and it was more spiritual than any church I’ve ever been to. So I reckon you’ve got enough going to lay out the rituals you need for yourself, and if you can get some friends to join you on those days and take it halfway seriously, so much the better.

I mean, take away all the politics and other nastiness, and this is literally what religion is

yeso

religion has a metaphysical life-meaning function, and I suspect that the importance of this function is difficult to grasp for people who weren’t raised religious, or who had the opportunity to build their own sense of self-worth, purpose, community, etc. So there’s a validating and anchoring aspect that is overlooked. I also suspect that people who are able to be “spiritual” without being more doctrinairely “religious” have been able to find that meaning and validation in other aspects of their lives. Not everyone has different options, and not everyone wants to reconfigure their soul-mandala or whatever if a particular religious framework is successful in giving their lives meaning (even if there are negative effects as well)

ainda_ I like to say I practice a religion of Marxism

I think I know what you mean, and the “long game” aspect of marxism, indicating that there will be a better and more just world, and that even though it may be distant, there are tasks we can do and ethics we can abide by in our own small corners of our communities to help bring it about has its religious facets. Unfortunately the “greed is good” psychos have their own framework too….

TheBeigeKnight

I know I’m late to the party but I feel here as as good as any place to share some of my thoughts on religion and “spirituality.”

I was raised by agnostic/atheist parents and for most of my life had a pretty negative view of religion and even religious people. I’ve softened on that over time as I’ve come to better understand why it exists and what it does for people.

A few years ago, during a very dark period in my life, I began to delve into the world of secular Buddhism after coming across a book Confession of a Buddhist Atheist by Stephen Batchelor. Through my exploration of his stuff in particular but also just Buddhism in general I’ve come to understand religion a lot better I think.

I think the crux of it is that human being understand life through metaphors. That’s what language really does for us, allows to create metaphors and communicate with each other about them. These metaphors are how we comprehend our existence and make our way through it. For many people, religious teachings form a lot of their foundational metaphors for seeing life. This can have serious negative consequences in my opinion, as a lot of these metaphors are communicating nonsensical ideas. But this doesn’t need to be the case, necessarily. Since the big religions have been around for thousands of years and been practiced and interpreted in a myriad of ways, you can usually find some pretty good metaphors in any of them if you look for them. You can find love and compassion expressed in all the major religions. You can find a lot of good, practical advice in there as well and even a surprising amount of secular exploration of ethics.

So, much of this is to say that, for me (even though I am a strong believer in a scientific view of the universe and I believe in natural law, not metaphysics or magic), because I spent so much time diving into Buddhism and secular Buddhism, I constantly use metaphors from the myths and philosophies of Buddhist culture to make sense of my existence.

And I think everyone does this, we use the metaphors of our culture and the cultures we have explored to make sense of everything. For good and for ill. You don’t have to believe in the metaphysical, nonsensical parts of a religion to do this.

Anyway, thank you for listening to my ramble, hopefully someone gets something out of this lol.

saddleblasters

TheBeigeKnight All my metaphors come from video games

milo

I wanted to recommend to folks in this thread the Duncan Trussell Family Hour. It’s a podcast by an acid-fried weirdo comedian. He can be a bit crass at times, but he’s a real sweet heart. He invites a lot of guests to the show with a myriad of spiritual beliefs from traditional christianity or buddhism to people who practice magic and sorcery. He’s very open and never judgmental and it’s really cool listening to so many people’s takes on what all this nonsense in the universe means. This last year was really rough for me (as I’m sure it was for everybody) and the show kinda helped me find my spiritual barometer.

After I stopped being religious, I used to think that I wasn’t spiritual either. But sometimes I’ll be out in the wilderness on a hike and just… take it all in and feel really warm and wonderful about all the splendor of the natural world and I wonder if, to a religious person, that’s what God feels like. It’s interesting. I do believe there is more to this universe than any of us will ever, ever know and that there’s a universal energy that runs over and through everything like a series of rivers and that maybe it’s possible to tap into that energy and heck! Maybe there really are beings that exist beyond our perception that can see us and talk with us if we know how to channel them… But I’m a scientist at heart, and as much as that stuff sounds really cool, I can’t go all in without proof.

donrumata

milo
I watched that animated series he did with Pendleton Ward, the Midnight Gospel. Pretty good imo.

Also re: religion of marxism, they are currently giving away digital copies of Hammer and Hoe, a book about communist organizing in Alabama during the great depression. There is a lot of interesting stuff in there about how black workers used the organization and imagery from their churches to build a mass movement. It’s really cool.

tapevulture

milo nice post. i have gotten this vibe when hiking. where i live there’s plenty of green space and preserved forests but actually very little where there isn’t some intrusion by modern civilization, usually noise pollution, cars, airplanes, etc. being in actual nature, hearing silence, sounds of birds, observing decay, new life, being in tune with it all, can certainly move the thoughts in a contemplative direction……..

Gaagaagiins

I like to say I am a materialist animist, half as a joke, and half seriously, and the humor in the joke is actually about how serious I am when I say it

Syzygy

saddleblasters
We run. Like Mario and Princess “Beach”.

rainbowbattlekid

I don’t have much to contribute (certainly not when I’m this sleepy!) but I just wanna chime in and say as a Christian, I am really bummed out by the whole vibe of American Evangelical Christianity, and feel like they do a great disservice to the faith they claim to be a part of and claim to want to share with others.

It also makes it rough being usually one of the only Christians in any of the “cool” parts of the internet like this cause all I can do is kinda shrug and be bummed that this is so much the picture of this faith here.

The way they have tied Jesus to this gross conservative ideology is really gross and ultimately pretty evil imo.

EDIT: also fwiw I’m a full on socialist and don’t feel like it conflicts with my faith at all. If anything, I became way MORE of a leftist after becoming a Christian (as an adult! in 2012!)

Gaagaagiins

rainbowbattlekid I’m not a Christian but I am always aghast at just how corrupt and decadent Christianity has become over the ages. You gotta admit it was pretty bad in Europe in the past too but yeah American Christianity is often an abomination. A distressing amount of it consistently has worse optics as the literal Satanic Temple (note: not the Church of Satan). It’s like, did you read the Gospels, bro?? Have you somehow been severely misinformed about how big needles are and how small camels are

Also it is not my area of interest really but I have always wished I knew more about liberation theology

rejj

rainbowbattlekid It also makes it rough being usually one of the only Christians in any of the “cool” parts of the internet like this cause all I can do is kinda shrug and be bummed that this is so much the picture of this faith here.

For what it is worth, as an atheist my stance is people can believe whatever they like as long as they do not forcibly push it on anyone else. I have far less of an issue with “religion” rather than “Organised Religion”. There are interesting conversations to be had about the former, the latter is just a thin veil over and renaming of “organised crime” as far as I’m concerned.

So!

To you I would hope that you do not feel uncomfortable anywhere just because of your personal beliefs. However, if it turn out that you are actually one of those TV Evangelists, or George Pell or the Pope, then maybe my opinion there would change somewhat.

Syzygy

rainbowbattlekid
Christianity is incompatible with capitalism (Matthew 19:21, etc.) and it is always the strangest part of attending my grandparents’ upper-middle class retiree parish, to watch them nod along with being called sinners for their lives of privilege and then walk out to go have $200 brunch. Though I would add this is because Christ was explicitly apocalyptic: Jesus’s teachings took on with ordinary people in the belief that the end days were coming soon, maybe tomorrow. For an eschatological religion to last 2000 years is an oddity, it has to be said.

rainbowbattlekid

Gaagaagiins I don’t know much about the theory but i’ve always meant to read up on it more.

for me it’s as simple as thinking capitalism is an evil system, that does material (and spiritual) harm to most, but even spiritual harm to those who “benefit” from it.

i always say it as a cheeky line but i truly mean it when I say I want to free the rich from their wealth >:)

Jaffe

There was a digital billboard outside the Baptist church near my house where one week it read:

“BLOWN IT?
SO HAVE WE
JUST COME”

rainbowbattlekid

Jaffe Evangelicals have a particular skill at this kind of thing.

I actually sometimes wonder if their weird obsession with “sexual immorality” (especially at the exclusion of literally any other type of immorality!) causes their subconscious to do stuff like this.

exodus

wow, they’ve really got something going over there.

rainbowbattlekid

https://breakingground.us/how-to-be-white/ I really like what I’ve read of this Christian guy’s stuff, and i feel like his last paragraph on racism applies similarly (for me, anyway) to capitalism, patriarchy/sexism, etc.

But yeah back on topic, I think someone like me sees that sign in the OP and is like “yeah i GUESS i agree with this?” but only in a REALLLL technical sense and certainly not the SPIRIT of the thing, nor (more importantly) how it is read/received.

For me I view it as, we are a broken/flawed race in need of saving, and there’s a lot of angles people can view that from, like we are rule-breakers in need of punishment, or that our sin just causes a distance from god, or that we are weak/sick and need healing, etc etc. I tend to lean towards the latter (ISH) but also a lot more “Please. Accept the mystery.” when it comes to the actual like, MECHANICS of sin/salvation. To me, my faith is putting my trust in Jesus having lived the life we can’t, and his righteousness (trying to think of a word less snobby, will come back to later if i can) being credited to us.

The trinity as a concept is also not something i claim to have a full grasp of, but I lean probably more towards what’s called Modalism, that Jesus is not separate from God, but is God incarnating in the form of man. ANd through his works we are saved and reconciled to God, or healed from our pride that ultimately makes us turn from God, or whatever combination of these things.

(tangent, all this nebulousness is more a result of my inability to articulate well, rather than just like, not knowing what I believe lol)

I also lean towards universalism, essentially believing that since God wants no one to go unsaved, and has the power to do so, that ultimately all will be saved and reconciled THROUGH Jesus. So I guess in that sense, I agree with the sign SORT OF? But coming at it from a totally different angle. Like “gospel” literally means “Good News” and any Christian or Church who is preaching anything that seems so antithetical to that, doesn’t really have a good grasp on things.

I definitely don’t presume to speak for all secular ppl/practitioners of other faiths, but I will say that my understanding of what it means to follow Christ has changed enough that like, I definitely think that the faith I am a part of is definitely not the same one I grew up rejecting, and this sort of stuff is a big part of that.

Like when I first started reading the gospels and Jesus is like, flipping over the tables and whipping money-changers in the temple, and teaching (in my view) that it’s definitely bad to be rich, and basically displaying a radical cosmic humility and inviting me to do the same, and I’m thinking “where the heck was any of this when I was a kid in church?”

I dunno, definitely ended up rambling and I’m gonna blame the really fun combination of caffeine, benadryl, klonopin and gabapentin that is currently battling it out in my bloodstream lol

rainbowbattlekid

rejj

For what it is worth, as an atheist my stance is people can believe whatever they like as long as they do not forcibly push it on anyone else.

Like this is some of what bothers me about American Christians. They feel like people are hostile to their religion, but what do they think the hostility is a reaction to? Grace? Humility? Kindness? Generosity? Care for the poor and sick and needy? Self-sacrifice? These are the fundamental elements of Christian behavior, so the fact that anyone could hear someone is a Christian and be wary is such a sadness. The idea that people would hear “that guy is into forgiveness and mercy and liberation? To each his own but keep that business away from me!” is I guess possible but certainly doesn’t seem like it would be the case. I mean, it’s sort of exampled with religions like Buddhism or something where people don’t have the same initial wariness or (often justified) hostility!

(obviously history has no shortage of even worse/large-scale behavior in the name of “God” but I reserve the right to be particularly frustrated at this one cause I happen to coexist with it lol)

Jaffe

I went to that Baptist Church only once, for a religion class assignment which required you to attend the service of a religion other than your own. The entire hour-long sermon was about how you can’t trust Jews.

At the end of the sermon, I whispered to the lady next to me, “Do you want to know a secret?”

rainbowbattlekid

Jaffe All I can do is sigh with grief.

Sounds like an assignment that pastor could have benefited from!

yeso

Jaffe my family and the family of a childhood friend would share holiday traditions, so they would come over for wigilia (polish catholic xmas eve), and we would go to seder for example. One year they went to mass with us, and I remember my friend walked up with me and received communion just to check it out lol

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