(Archived 2022) The Insert Credit Neighborhood McDonalds

A thread in which to discuss various happenings within videogames that doesn't have an otherwise relevant thread, in the style of old timers who go to the same McDonalds every morning to piss and moan about the news with their contemporaries in cantankerousness.

Go get your $1 coffee, post an article (or not if you'd rather explain in your own words), and get a discussion going.

[“The Insert Credit Neighborhood McDonalds (General Videogame News Discussion”,“The Insert Credit Neighborhood McDonalds (General Videogame News Discussion)”]

I initially had the idea for this thread when reading about the proposed new higher tiers of Playstation Plus which, at least based on my limited understanding as a total Sony Fanboy, seems to be adding a Game Pass like service.

And I think I echo Brandon's fear about what this is going to mean for the market and especially smaller development studios in general. Sony and Microsoft obviously can't subsidize development across the entire industry and I think at least over time this will have a suppressive effect on the value proposition of indie games. Basically, it will make it make less sense to most consumers in general to pay $20 one time for one game, when you're paying $10 dollars or whatever it is once a month for access to dozens of games. And, honestly, yes that does mean your access to those games is conditional on you continuing to pay for the service (perhaps the greatest DRM of all is just not letting you own the games at all in any tangible form), but let's be real, for most people that isn't really gonna matter much.

Medium sized studios making games that punch above their weight class with the expectation they'll be able to sell for somewhere between your basic indie title and your "full priced" AAA game (trending toward the latter) may even be the ones most at risk. Selling a comparatively small amount of copies for a comparatively small price is perhaps going to work out for smaller studios who are already making that work. Maybe this will even work out okay for them, if people are paying for less full priced games less often maybe they will have the spare $10s or $20s to plunk down for a cute little indie game more often. However anything in between them and the sorts of studios being bought or generously funded by Sony, Microsoft, or one of the legacy publishers I think will have the most trouble with the shift in the value proposition of an individual game.

Great thread, great title. I also wanted to chit-chat about the PS+ changes and didn‘t want to have to go research my thoughts enough to make a substantive first post. I’ve got your $1 coffee today @“Gaagaagiins”#429.

I do most of my gaming in the PlayStation ecosystem and I can tell you that this change is very likely to adjust my immediate purchasing habits in some way. As an Insert Credit person who will (but doesn't often) buy new AAA games at full price, I'm curious to see what the initial selection will be. I think that your examples of "mid-tier" games going to be subsumed by one of the Netflix of Games services is pretty accurate. Here are some specifics I've been thinking about.

  • - Gran Turismo 7 is something that I was thinking of buying this holiday season when it‘s inevitably on sale. Will I now? I may roll the dice and just wait a second year and see if it shows up on PS++ as I don’t know if I will actually like it.
  • - I've been on the fence about buying the _Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz_ pack because it's the good Super Monkey Ball*. Sega games in general seem like a great target for Sony to just throw a bunch of money at so I expect that this will be on the service. I didn't buy it today when it's on sale.
  • - The counterpoint to this are games from known developers that I'm already an established fan of. I know that I'm going to like the new _Guilty Gear_, so I'm just going to buy it and be able to have fun on day one. (Though I don't care about that new _Dungeon Fighter_ game, but that's for the Fighting Games thread.
  • - My friends: I did buy _Downwell_ for like the 5th time for $1.50 today on sale, and I am putting it in this list because I really like _Downwell_.
  • - Is _Hyper Gunsport_ going to be on the service? I'm genuinely not prodding our host for information here, but Brandon's brought up how Necrosoft has made much of its money from these kind of buyout deals.
  • - There are going to be so many damn 3-year-old AAA games on this service. In economics and marketing there is a concept of "Price Integrity": it's the perception of how much a buyer thinks something is worth relative to how much it fluctuates. An example of this is in Luxury goods who rarely if ever place things on sale. I think this will further damage the games-buyer's appetite for buying AAA games at full price, if at all. Steam started this erosion of a game's perceived Price Integrity and showed that games have high "Price Elasticity". Basically, the market goes up disproportionately to how much you discount it. That's why we hear about how steam sales with 75% discounts do more revenue than the rest of the year.
  • *The provocateur Insert Credit take is that "Super Monkey Ball" is the "Good S.M.B." Get wrecked Mario 1.

    >

    @“antillese”#p64365 There are going to be so many damn 3-year-old AAA games on this service. In economics and marketing there is a concept of “Price Integrity”: it’s the perception of how much a buyer thinks something is worth relative to how much it fluctuates. An example of this is in Luxury goods who rarely if ever place things on sale. I think this will further damage the games-buyer’s appetite for buying AAA games at full price, if at all.

    Tangent here but it's very fascinating to think we have this one huge glaring contradiction to this overall trend in Nintendo. Perhaps also further buoyed by at least how there's a general perception of them having returned to form in their first party legacy franchise exclusives.

    And a tangent off of my tangent: as the third pillar of gaming, can we see Nintendo getting in on this model of selling games? Before 2032, anyway.

    Part of why I‘m wondering that: I want that new Kirby!! But I don’t $79.99 CAD want it!

    @“Gaagaagiins”#p64370 I feel you buddy: I paid full price for Metroid 5. And I’ve got some opinions.

    I doubt I‘ll be increasing my PS+ tier unless they’ve got some real bonkers games on those retro tiers. I'm content enough to raid ebay and curate my own collection.

    However there is a part of me that is wondering what mileage something like this has, but in the case of this argument, specifically Game Pass, on long term subscription retention when it comes to the digital only consoles. To cut to the chase, if I had bought a Series S console and only used Game Pass I'd be pretty pissed when it comes to the end of the generation and realised that I don't own any of the games that I played, my disc-driveless box will soon be unsupported, and its value on the trade-in / second hand market will be somewhere in between a pittance and bugger all. I guess this would also apply to a minority of people who buy the digital only PS5 and only use it for the premium PS+ tiers.

    I dunno, perhaps it's just wishful thinking but these services whilst now feeling like they're going to be the death of games I have a feeling that in 5-10 years they may be the catalyst for greater physical game sales figures, and adjacently standalone digital releases for indie games without worrying about Game Pass / PS+. Much like how physical music and film is beginning to see a modest revival versus what is increasingly known to be unethical streaming / creator practices.

    Man, I might be the world‘s oldest 32-year old but I think the value proposition (yuck) of something like Netflix is massively overstated, and I feel similarly about Game Pass. I think GP is great for when I want to play something and it happens to be on there; I really dislike the experience of mindlessly scrolling a huge list for something, anything, to play and if I don’t like it, whatever, I'll simply delete and try something else.

    I have a hard time putting into words exactly what the difference is, but using these services is somehow more akin to the boredom of channel surfing on the TV rather than the decommodification that comes with pirating or using a public library to me. I have friends who feel very differently and swear by GP religiously though, so it's definitely not a universal experience. Still, it seems the uptake among PC gamers is lower than you'd think, given the Excellent Value.

    >

    @“christoffing”#p64376 I think GP is great for when I want to play something and it happens to be on there

    Totally agree. Same for the PS+ games.

    >

    @“christoffing”#p64376 I really dislike the experience of mindlessly scrolling a huge list for something, anything, to play and if I don’t like it, whatever, I’ll simply delete and try something else.

    Totally agree. But I don't do this. I also don't watch TV like this either and I feel like I get my subscription worth of value out of Netflix so... 🤷🏻‍♂️

    >

    @“christoffing”#p64376 Still, it seems the uptake among PC gamers is lower than you’d think, given the Excellent Value.

    The counterpoint to this is the bazillion or so people who subscribe to a single MMO at a price point equivalent to "The greatest value in gaming". I think it boils down to "does this service have what I am looking for?" If it does, people will pay for it. If not, they will go somewhere else.

    In conclusion, if you want the greatest value, IDK, go run _Chrono Cross_ in an emulator? 😛

    Dang, you know, I think I'm also seeing how this is going to be the next venue for the dreaded Console Wars. The Activision Blizzard acquisition by Microsoft just seems like business as usual but that angle makes it make more sense that Sony has also been ramping up acquisitions too, I guess culminating (so far) with the Bungie acquisition. Even if, say, they continue to release games on multiple platforms, surely it will be a cold day in hell before we would see something like Destiny 3 on Game Pass or The Call Of Duty on PS++, from here on out. The battles of the near identical computers rages on I suppose.

    Also when I was thinking of the chance that it may become particularly inhospitable for AA or mid tier developers without big backing from Microsoft, Sony, or some kinda legacy publisher, I was thinking in particular of the Housemarque acquisition. That game came off to me like it cost a lot more than what its 500,000-700,000 copies sold would have recouped. Surely at some point it must have been meant to help move PlS5es before anyone could anticipate that that would not be the problem they would be dealing with following the release of the thing, but yeah. It's obviously already rough enough out there for all game developers everywhere but I wonder if we will cease to see smaller-but-ambitious studios grow without divine favor in advance. Well, maybe that was never the case, idk. What was CD Projekt Red's ascendency like?

    Me, from the N64 kiosk in the play center: You guys hear about this year‘s E3 being canceled? I mean, yea, I suppose it was a long time coming, what with social media giving every brand the power to essentially create their own E3 stage all year round, and then every publisher on the planet moving toward having their own mini-conference they can easily control, but it’s for exactly those reasons that I don‘t regard E3’s demise as an inherently good thing. Like, this doesn't represent the end of the commercial holiday mentality that E3 had always represented, but rather, the consummation o-WHAT THE FUCK, NATHAN!? I THOUGHT WE AGREED NO ODDJOB! YOU REALLY THOUGHT YOU COULD PULL THAT CHEAP SHIT ON ME!? HUH!? HUH!?

    Me, from the soda fountain filling my free water cup with root beer:

    this clip gets more real every year.

    https://youtu.be/KsH0s2_S_Ck?t=50

    [The Game Awards Voice] Wooorld Premier [Fart Reverb . mp3]

    @“穴”#p64422

    A lot of the time I think of Big T.R. and most times I think of E3, I think of this image of indescribable power:

    [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/B5SAoRP.png]

    In terms of ‘what game pass et al will do to the industry’ I mostly feel discomfort along the lines of what's been expressed already.

    But I also don't really get it from a 'me want more toys' perspective. I mean if game pass is access to a whole mess of games, then heck I already HAVE it. I'm aware this is a very shallow assessment and it's obviously pretty easy to think of a situation where game pass is great value, but I don't think it's for me.

    The Xbox feature I really want that Sony continue to be real asses about is backwards compatibility. Gamepass offers some old games but they‘re also just available to straight up purchase. Do I want to pay Sony for the luxury of subscription-based access to old games (pre-PS3 only since I live outside PS Now territory)? Depends what the lineup is I guess. It would be kind of nice to have just one Playstation hooked up to the TV that could do current games along with Wipeout 2097 and Critical Velocity and Ribbit King. Somehow I get the feeling that’s not going to happen. It just sucks because you can easily imagine an alternate reality in which Sony suddenly started selling a huge chunk of the back catalogue of games across the generations. PS5 could be so much cooler.

    @“goonbag”#p64474 Yeah it feels like BC ended up with folding@home, SACD compatibility and Playstation Home on the list of PS3 bloat features, somehow. Funny how Sony were really good about it and then just dropped the ball entirely after PS3 Slim.

    >

    @“goonbag”#p64474 The Xbox feature I really want that Sony continue to be real asses about is backwards compatibility. Gamepass offers some old games but they’re also just available to straight up purchase. Do I want to pay Sony for the luxury of subscription-based access to old games (pre-PS3 only since I live outside PS Now territory)?

    Hold up, is the PS+++ service the only way to get pre-PS3 games, or can you not still buy individual older titles piecemeal?