DELTARUNE Thread

Figured we might need one of these, especially if people are trying to avoid spoilers. Now everything can be all nice and in one place! Feel free to fully discuss any spoilers, theories, why Noelle is the best character, or anything else about DELTARUNE here.

One thing I‘m finding especially impressive is how far Toby is pushing the combat mechanics. The King and Jevil boss fights in chapter 1 really wowed me, and though I haven’t fought the superboss in chapter 2 yet, the sheer amount of boss fights in this one and the unique abilities they have was always a treat. I feel like it‘s easy to think of Toby Fox mostly as a great writer, who just happens to have his great writing in a game, but he’s an incredible designer too!! It's incredibly clear where his inspirations lay and how genuinely he reveres them, and uses that fondness of those games to iterate further. He may be standing on the shoulders of giants, but he has definitely become one himself, as well.

Won't comment anything on the game but I have to say I respect Toby Fox tremendously because of what he has done.

[upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/GlOCHb9.png]

I like that he is not only aware that he is giving a tremendously profitable product for free due to sheer generosity, but he knows and wants to direct that generosity towards other developers directly.

I admit I'm not an UNDERTALE fan but this shows toby fox is a genuinelly good guy and honestly, good for him and his whole fanbase.

Damn it's good

I was laughing out loud a lot. Last night I was also watching some clip of Limmy watching one of his own skits, and laughing at some directing prompts he remembered giving to one of the actors. And he gave some sage wisdom for comedy writing that I‘m sure is fundamental to his style of comedy. He said that it’s really important to write and do what you find funny rather than what you assume other people find funny, because statistically speaking, you at least know 1 person finds it funny so others probably will as well. What I'm saying here is that I can definitely imagine Toby Fox just brays with laughter while writing their games.

I played for 2.5 hours, last thing I did was ||The second battle versus Berdly.||

Thoughts: (starting with some stuff from the start of the chapter)

  • - 7 CHAPTERS? What a madman… this will be one of my best games of the decade in 3 different decades at this rate!
  • - The battles are still very fun (very creative bullet patterns), but I kind of miss the more complex, puzzle style encounters in Undertale like Snowdrake or Woshua. In Deltarune it seems like every option in the ACT menu is the right option.
  • - Music is banging, of course.
  • - Took me some time to get used to emotive Susie and white Ralsei... I think I still prefer the black one, but I love how he walks with his hands behind his back now.
  • - Haven't been able to return yet (I think) but the town building aspect seems awesome.
  • - Seam says there will be 7 superbosses! Very nice, can't wait to finish that quest in 8 years...
  • - The original Starwalker in my inventory is funny every time I see him.
  • spoilery thoughts:

  • - ||Queen is Lancer‘s mom, right…? Kinda weird he’s been sitting in the inventory not doing anything even if she's not.||
  • - ||RK was also in the inventory, now he's gone... wonder what he's up to.||
  • - ||Switching up the party was a great way to increase variety in chapter 1 and it continues here. I really hope we see more characters enter the Dark World in later chapters like Noelle and Berdly. What is Asgore or Toriel or my man Sans entered it?||
  • - ||Wonder if Asgore is hiding something. That back room of his is very suspicious, and the door in there seems like it could be a Dark World entrance. The bunker could be one too.||
  • - ||The Knight is a super important figure and we know nothing about them, I hope we learn more. My insane guess is that it's Asriel, the one form the real world that went to university. What's the deal with Ralsei, then? idk lol||
  • - ||I found the second "Egg". Is this going to be another quest that finishes in chapter 7?||
  • - ||People in the city are hyping up something "Big". I bet it's the toilet that Temmie made too big accidentally. ||
  • This isn‘t new to Chapter 2 but it is a continuation of the fact that I’m glad Deltarune takes the mechanical raw meat presented by Undertale and cooks up a well balanced multi course meal with it. If I have one “complaint” about Undertale, it‘s that it was not shy about part of the whole punchline of the game was that it wasn’t really a JRPG so much as it was a bullet hell game with structured breaks in between bullet dodging sections, and a few very shallow JRPG mechanics layered on top. Undertale worked well like this and it‘s surely one of the most inventive bullet hell games ever created, don’t get me wrong, but yeah, I don‘t think it’s unfair to say there isn‘t much of a JRPG there. Your inventory kind of becomes the equivalent of how many errors you can make in dodging projectiles and there isn’t much strategy to anything beyond picking which enemies you want to deal with first.

    _Deltarune_ actually gives us an honest to goodness tactical battle system with some lean and elegant design choices, and wowie, putting more thought and complexity into that side of the game's primary mechanical friction makes it all sing. We've Come A Long Way From Timed Button Presses In _Super Mario RPG_. And the TP system including how grazing in the bullet hell sequences generates TP for ability usage, or how defending generates a chunk of TP as well as lessens damage, or how excess TP at the end of a battle generates extra currency, or how you can generate TP by characters sooner in the order to be used by characters later in the order, but you can't Spare the last enemy and then cast a heal (or use an item? I actually didn't try this) with someone later in the turn order... those are some _amuse-bouches_ design choices right there.

    Something that kind of comes to mind there is that the best tactical battle systems are kind of ones that are designed to be broken, in the sense of when designers of a battle system are first able to predict where players will take a path of least resistance. Then, instead of closing that loophole off, it gets leaned into and the game expects or even signposts players to use it as part of their tactical toolkit. I can't think of many other examples right now but _Darkest Dungeon_ is full of those sorts of things, likely a product of it having been in early access for a while and player feedback being a big part of the design process. I'm thinking in particular of how there is a countdown of turns in between when you kill all enemies in an encounter except for one (unless it's a powerful/large one), and if you take too long to kill it you'll get a form of secondary damage (Stress) and a turn after that enemy reinforcements will arrive, basically restarting the combat encounter entirely (which is pretty much never going to be favorable). This was incorporated when I guess some clever players figured out they could toy with a weaker enemy while healing their party and trivialize a lot of the difficulty of the game. I love this solution because instead of making lone enemies run at the end of an encounter, which would solve the exploitative nature of the loophole players had found, it instead still lets you squeeze out some tactical benefit to dragging out an encounter intentionally but demands that you be smart about it too.

    _Deltarune_ is still pretty simplistic in comparison to something like _Darkest Dungeon_ of course but it's little things like that which make the moment to moment gameplay much more engaging. _Undertale's_ JRPG trappings did kind of feel more like a punchline than anything, which was often funny even thought it certainly left me wanting. _Deltarune_ on the other hand is a brilliant proof of concept and I hope that the tactical depth goes further and further in the later installments.

    Makes me think of how tactical RPGs as a supergenre have so much potential that seems to so often get left unexplored. These kinds of games get a bad rap for tedium being simply a genre affectation and success or failure mostly coming down to numerical arbitration, and while that's true for a lot of RPGs that really is down to the fact that that's the easiest way to make 'em so it's how most of 'em will be made. Not every tactical RPG has to have other microgame style bullet hell or platforming or action puzzle chunks strewn throughout it a la _Deltarune, SMRPG, Mario & Luigi,_ et. al, although personally I've always found that that extra level (or levels) of engagement are a straightforward way to give the player a lot to do. The secret to better tactical RPGs is I suppose that there is no choice that is too small to not make interesting, and _Deltarune_ backing up the microgames with those kinds of interesting choices keeps the battles fresh and continuously fun.

    @“Snowdecahedron”#p43547 Definitely interested to hear your thoughts on some of the things mentioned here after you finish the chapter… Also you're right, I retract my initial statement at the start of this thread and have to admit the original Starwalker is actually the best character.

    Oh lordy…….

    ||</s>https://youtu.be/rIFzcrDr5Fs<e> ||

    @“Syzygy”#p43578 Fair enough~ This thread mentions at the start that it's explicitly for spoilers, but that one is a bit of a bombshell!!

    >

    @“Funbil”#p43577 Oh lordy…….

    ### **_NO_**

    Do I need to play and finish undertale before getting into deltarune?

    Finished… what an ending.

    In general: It‘s more Deltarune and I love it. The dialogue, battles, music, art, everything is great. Actually, right now I don’t remember that much of the music but I'm sure it will grow on me like before…

    @"Funbil"#p43579 I really agree about the boss fights, one of the boring parts of Undertale (JRPGs in genreral actually) was doing the same enemies the same way over and over while trying to go anywhere. The focus on unique encounters is much better.

    big spoilers!

  • - ||I'm thinking Kris is the Knight. They must have created the library fountain right after chapter 1 ended. They took out a knife, after all. They shape the Dark World to have an adventure with Asriel and others.||
  • - ||Spamton was sick. Loved to see the yellow heart return, way easier than Jevil though.||
  • - ||King seemed like a bigger deal last chapter, I thought chapter 2 and onwards would still have to do with the card kingdom. Now it seems like there will be a new villain every time? Queen fits more as a throwaway villain so I don't mind her, bit of a shame that all of those areas will be gone now.||
  • - ||So yeah, I crafted this new equipment and next time I can use it is in like 3 years lol? There's something really wrong there.||
  • - ||@"Funbil"#p43577 Oh man... here I was thinking I basically saw everything. Skimmed through the document they have and it seems interesting, especially the implication that this could actually be a new route for all new chapters. Gonna check it out in detail another time!||
  • @“tomjonjon”#p43586 Definitely not, but you might as well play Undertale first. They are similar enough that if you like one, you'll like the other and Deltarune plays with your expectations from playing Undertale. I think Toby Fox described it as not a sequel but “a game for people who have completed Undertale”

    @“tomjonjon”#p43586 Definitely not! To me it feels like EarthBound and Mother 3, where there‘s some nice things thrown in for people who know the older game, but it’s entirely separate stories with next to 0 reliance on each other.

    The official word from Toby Fox on the deltarune website is:

    [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/LM8jlPJ.jpeg]

    So yeah I’d say playing UNDERTALE first is highly recommended.

    >

    @“tomjonjon”#p43586 Do I need to play and finish undertale before getting into deltarune?

    I'll throw in my 2 cents and say that considering _Deltarune_ is currently 2/7ths complete and _Undertale_ is 100% complete, not playing _Undertale_ first would just be cheating yourself out of enjoying _Undertale_ without having to compare it to the parts of _Deltarune_ that are strictly better put together, and enjoying _Deltarune_ at least marginally less or at least strangely, in the sense that so much of its content _refers_ to _Undertale,_... it doesn't require knowledge of _Undertale_ but I would say it does reward it.

    On top of that, _Undertale_ is not an enormously long game, either! Even an obsessive approach to it would probably struggle to get more than 20 hours out of it.

    So, there's really very little reason to not play _Undertale_ first.