Ep. 167 - The Great Great Gatsby, with Patrick Miller

### Ep. 167 - The Great Great Gatsby, with Patrick Miller

Patrick Miller victoriously rejoins the panel to cover high literature, experimental film, and the ultimate fighting game tournament arc. Original music by Kurt Feldman.

**Questions this week:**

  • 1. Previously on Insert Credit: What can you tell about a person based on their fighting game style and preferences? (04:41)
  • 2. As far as video games go, what is and is not cyberpunk? (10:50)
  • 3. What studio which has never made a fighting game before could probably make a pretty good fighting game? (16:36)
  • 4. What did Adobe Flash mean for video games over the past 24 years, what have we lost, and what can be saved? (22:12)
  • 5. Design The Great Gatsby 2 (28:00)
  • 6. Which video games make you feel the heaviest? (34:40)
  • 7. What are some games you went too easy on? (40:32)
  • 8. What is the Eraserhead of video games? (46:34)
  • 9. Giant-Sized Violence Island: Fighting Game Protagonists (51:35)
  • **LIGHTNING ROUND**: Patreon Suporter Grandbag’s Funeral presents Name Design: Baskin Robins Ice Cream Flavors (01:03:40)

    **A SMALL SELECTION OF THINGS REFERENCED:**

  • - Terrible leaked Spider-Man pitch
  • - [Ep. 163 - It Doesn't Get Eddie Vedder Than This, with Heather Anne Campbell](https://forums.insertcredit.com/d/394-ep-163-it-doesnt-get-eddie-vedder-than-this-with-heather-anne-campbell)
  • - [Chipp Zanuff (Guilty Gear)](https://guilty-gear.fandom.com/wiki/Chipp_Zanuff)
  • - [Mito (The Rumble Fish 2)](https://wiki.gbl.gg/w/The_Rumble_Fish_2/Mito)
  • - [What Was Cyberpunk? In Memoriam: 1980-2020](https://forums.insertcredit.com/d/419-what-was-cyberpunk-in-memoriam-1980-2020) by Moon
  • - [The Jackpot Trilogy](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/TJ3/the-jackpot-trilogy/) by William Gibson
  • - [PSASBR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_All-Stars_Battle_Royale)
  • - [Pyre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyre_(video_game))
  • - [Neobards](https://www.neobards.com/)
  • - [Public Play: IndieCade Brings Gaming Out In the Open](https://www.pastemagazine.com/games/public-play-indiecade-brings-gaming-out-in-the-ope/) by Gus Mastrapa (the only mention of FISTMONGER i could find)
  • - [Kidou Butouden G-Gundam](https://www.giantbomb.com/kidou-butouden-g-gundam/3030-28264/)
  • - [Nanaca Crash](https://archive.org/details/nanaca-crash_v110)
  • - [The Behemoth](https://www.thebehemoth.com/)
  • - [Ratatouille Musical](https://ratatousical.com/)
  • - [The Great Gatsby](http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200041.txt)
  • - [Mint Julep](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mint_julep)
  • - [Creepy Green Light by Type O Negative](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQJ3DjQVrdg)
  • - [Fat Rolling](https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Rolling#Slow_Roll)
  • - [Face/Off](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119094/) (1997)
  • - [MechWarrior Online](https://mwomercs.com/)
  • - [Robot Alchemic Drive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Alchemic_Drive)
  • - [Miracle Ropitt: 2100-Nen no Daibōken](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Ropitt%3A_2100-Nen_no_Daib%C5%8Dken)
  • - [SamSho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_Shodown)
  • - [Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_the_Berserk:_Guts%27_Rage)
  • - [Hatred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatred_(video_game))
  • - [Eraserhead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eraserhead) (1977)
  • - [El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Shaddai:_Ascension_of_the_Metatron)
  • - [Dear Substance of Kin](https://deconstructeam.itch.io/dear-substance-of-kin)
  • - [Ryu](https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Ryu) from [Street Fighter](https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Street_Fighter_Wiki)
  • - [Scorpion](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Scorpion) from [Mortal Kombat](https://mortalkombat.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Kombat_Wiki)
  • - [Jin Kamaza](https://tekken.fandom.com/wiki/Jin_Kazama) from [Tekken](https://tekken.fandom.com/wiki/Tekken_Wiki)
  • - [Akira Yuki](https://virtuafighter.fandom.com/wiki/Akira_Yuki) from [Virtua Fighter](https://virtuafighter.fandom.com/wiki/Virtua_Fighter_Wiki)
  • - [Nightmare](https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Nightmare) from [SoulCalibur](https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Soulcalibur_Wiki)
  • - [Ryo Sakazaki](https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/Ryo_Sakazaki) from [Art of Fighting](https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/Art_of_Fighting_(series))
  • - [Terry Bogard](https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/Terry_Bogard) from [Fatal Fury](https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/Fatal_Fury_(series))
  • - [Sol Badguy](https://guilty-gear.fandom.com/wiki/Sol_Badguy) from [Guilty Gear](https://guilty-gear.fandom.com/wiki/Guilty_Gear_Wiki)
  • - [STREETBEEFS YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCA9jYYLcoteMaqynrIAylA)
  • - [Athena Asamiya](https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/Athena_Asamiya) from [King of Fighters](https://snk.fandom.com/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_(series))
  • **Recommendations:**
    **[Patrick Miller](https://twitter.com/pattheflip)**: [Patrick Miller's Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/pattheflip), [twitch.tv/pattheflip](https://www.twitch.tv/pattheflip) stream Mon-Thur around 7:30 PM PST
    **Brandon:** Don't take Insert Credit too seriously, form your own subjective opinions, [Shadow in the Cloud](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9691136/) (2020), retracting last week's The Mandalorian Season 2 recommendation
    **Frank**: [Hollow Knight](https://hollowknight.com/) with a [Benj Edwards](https://twitter.com/benjedwards) fight stick
    **Jaffe**: [Ted Lasso](https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy)
    **Tim**: [Perry Mason](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2077823/) (2020)

    Support on [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit)

    Subscribe: [RSS](https://insertcredit.com/show/rss), [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/insert-credit-show/id1509363651), [Google Podcasts](https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9pbnNlcnRjcmVkaXQuY29tL3Nob3cvcnNzLw), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/6CwWZE5p7vazIV1jrV9hln), and more!

    {“sticky”:true}

    OMG, cant wait to listen

    Does anybody else think that if we were able to show David Lynch the right game, we could inspire him to team up with an indie developer somewhere to make a bunch of cool experimental short games? What if someone showed him like, Paratopic or Sonic Dreams Collection, and then like two years later David Lynch releases an anthology game on Steam of like, immersive nightmare art installations? I have a strong feeling VR would be involved.

    @GigaSlime#13652 Maybe 20 years ago, but he‘s deeply into the craft of filmmaking and visual language, and especially mediums he can directly conduct, whether that’s comic strips or music. Creating games is a pretty abstracted experience and I feel like it would be unsatisfactory for him to not be able to translate his ideas directly and fairly quickly into the results. Around Inland Empire might have been a good time, when he was dissatisfied with the industry. But currently at his age, I don‘t want him to be distracted by anything that isn’t making more films or television or whatever!

    Also I haven't listened yet but the Eraserhead of video games is Eric Chahi's Another World/Out of this World -- a deeply strange and original work by an independent artist; it was successful and well regarded by critics and fans, though sometimes lambasted as being too obtuse or impenetrable for general audiences. And both Chahi and Lynch went on to be iconoclasts as well as icons in their mediums, both auteurs with visionary works who also flirted with mainstream success.

    I grew up catholic, but I do like singing in public.

    I’m another singing catholic. I‘ll bet tim also refused to hold a stranger’s hand during mass. You have to take charge and own that shit

    @GigaSlime#13652 he was involved in a never completed game called woodcutters from fiery ships or something like that. Would have been a great fit for the earlier cd rom era. Inland Empire has that kind of vibe I think

    I‘m surprised there wasn’t any mention of itch.io during the Flash discussion.

    First, Tim's jokes about Catholicism hit hardest because they are deadly serious.

    If you ever get the chance to hang out in one of the Guilty Gear lobbies that @pattheflip hosts, they are super fun. I haven't been able to participate because of family schedules (kid bedtimes mostly) but it's **shocking** how much you can learn if you get the chance to play 1:1 with him and he gives you a few pointers. He made two observations and I immediately changed a 20-year-old habit from _GGXX_ from college which doesn't apply in _-Xrd-_.

    Pat - if you see this post, what's my horoscope??

  • - Guile in the _SFII_ series
  • - Ken in _Street Fighter Alpha 1/2_
  • - Jam (dabbled w/ Slayer, but I'm no good with him!) in _Guilty Gear X_ through _Revelator_ Rev 2 (Looking at Nagoriyuki for _Strive_ since Jam isn't likely to make it)
  • - Cassandra in _Soul Calibur II, III_
  • - Aeon (Lizardman) and Ezio (yeah, the guest character!) in _Soul Calibur V_
  • - MINAZUKI Sho, Elizabeth (and Labrys) in _Persona 4 Arena, P4A Ultimax_
  • - Oro & Makoto in _3rd Strike_
  • - Hakumen & Tager (WHAT?) in _BlazBlue_
  • - "Random select in the _Smash Brothers_ series because it doesn't matter LOL" (J/K, I like _Samus_)
  • Being self-reflective, I'm an Order-Jam player.

    Another Catholic sounding off in the chat and I know EXACTLY what Tim is talking about.

    Lapsed Catholic turned Episcopalian here. I actually do like singing in Church: yes, the songs are bad (for the most part), and no, you can‘t hit those notes, but like Tim’s anecdote about reviewing games at Kotaku, you might as well try to like the thing you have to do and everyone else is just as awful as you are at singing On Eagle's Wings. I promise.

    Plus if someone judges your singing in Church they're going to Hell anyway 💅

    Thanks for the mention. Amusing that Tim happened to recommended the book I was castigating, but I‘m not surprised or hurt by Tim’s comments because I was already aware that he is a big William Gibson fan. The “you're talking out of your butthole” response seems very in character for him.

    When I play fighting games it's usually against friends of mine who are much, much better than me, so my goal usually isnt to win but to frustrate my opponents win as much as possible.

    For example, I like Bang in Blazeblue because his drive move can block/counter an opponent's move when timed right, and achiving his special where powers up for the rest of the match feels like a win condition to me whenever I can pull it off, even if I still end up losing the match.

    Otherwise, I tend to prefer "squirrely" high mobility characters over big heavy hitters. Characters that are hard to hit for one reason or another but maybe dont do the most damage.

    @antillese#13664 you have a pretty strong sense of personal taste that motivates you to seek personal experiences that start and end on your own terms, rather than defining them solely by the intent of the people around you, or a readily understandable satisfactory ‘ending point’. you appreciate the moments in a journey gives you a chance to see all the places you could go, even if you decide to go right back home afterwards, because it is in seeing those possibilities that your imagination gets to go wherever it likes without having to handle the reality that committing to a direction often feels like it's closing other paths from you.

    one possible reading is that you yearn to be deeply engaged by something so compelling that it simply pulls you through the fear of missing out on other possibilities; if this is the case, you may need to find reassurance that all paths eventually lead to the same place and the only difference is how you got there. another possible reading is that the goal is less important to you than the moment-to-moment experience of satisfying your inner curiosity; if this is the case, i would say hey, if it works for you, don't mess with it, but you may find yourself looking back on your wandering and finding that you wished you could have let yourself gone further with something.

    i tend to encourage people to seek out discomfort in service of overcoming their limitations so that they can become the person they want to be, but i find most people would rather learn to live in peace with themselves instead of wanting more. both are ultimately paths to curbing desire, i suppose!

    FYI here's some links to the bluemaxima Flash game archive project (WARNING - it can become big at ~500gb if you want everything):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/bw7pax/130gb_of_flash_games_flash_ends_in_2020/


    @pattheflip#13692 :no_mouth:

    You have seen through me.

    My mom sings really well in church, but tim's right on the money there.

    Eraserhead's themes to me are


  • * abstract
  • * industrial
  • * stark
  • * got body horror in it
  • * very influential
  • I've been playing Quake recently and, I gotta say, it hits those themes for me. I nominate Quake as the Eraserhead of games.

    @antillese#13700 I'd love to know what landed!

    @pattheflip#13692 Haha, I love this. You could do like a monthly fighting game horoscope. “November - Garou MOTW was released this month so Terry mains should consider changing up their style!”