Ep. 191 - The Not Game Making Dimension, with Liz Ryerson

### Ep. 191 - The Not Game Making Dimension, with Liz Ryerson

Musician, writer, and Insert Credit regular [Liz Ryerson](https://twitter.com/ellaguro) returns to cover lawyer angels, Charles Martinet’s infidelity, and Le Console. Original music by Kurt Feldman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rrQUHcqIxU?

**Questions this week:**

  • 1. Kelsey Lewin asks: What’s the recipe for the worst way to play Super Mario Bros.? (03:42)
  • 2. Has a spiritual sequel to a game ever surpassed it? (08:58)
  • 3. How would you commemorate a series 30th anniversary when you have no new games to announce? (13:16)
  • 4. Can listening to a game’s soundtrack spoil the game? (18:00)
  • 5. How have video games failed the queer community? (23:09)
  • 6. Dirtbag MoxBagel asks: How do you design around players hoarding items? (32:49)
  • 7. If all the big tech giants made video game consoles, which one would be the biggest disaster? (38:28)
  • 8. What are the best unlicensed games? (43:36)
  • 9. Can realistic human jumping be fun in video games? (49:15)
  • 10. Who’s the Christopher Columbus of video games? (54:26)
  • **LIGHTNING ROUND**: Glitchfork Reviews (59:03)

    **A SMALL SELECTION OF THINGS REFERENCED:**

  • - [NES Advantage controller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NES_Advantage)
  • - [NES Max controller](https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/NES_Max)
  • - [Power Glove](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Glove)
  • - [Game Genie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Genie)
  • - [Axiom Verge](https://www.mobygames.com/game/axiom-verge)
  • - [Bloodstained](https://www.mobygames.com/game/bloodstained-curse-of-the-moon)
  • - [King's Field](https://www.mobygames.com/game/kings-field_)
  • - [Siren](https://www.mobygames.com/game/siren)
  • - [Thimbleweed Park](https://www.mobygames.com/game/thimbleweed-park)
  • - [The Legendary Axe](https://www.mobygames.com/game/turbo-grafx/legendary-axe)
  • - [Astyanax](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/astyanax)
  • - [The Magic of Scheherazade](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/magic-of-scheherazade)
  • - [Sonic Symphony](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGTlBHNvjsU)
  • - [Friend of the show Ash Parrish](https://twitter.com/adashtra)
  • - [Topher's legendary Sonic 2 SE letsplay](https://archive.org/details/LP_Sonic_2_SE)
  • - [Earthbound](https://www.mobygames.com/game/earthbound)
  • - [Chrono Cross](https://www.mobygames.com/game/chrono-cross)
  • - [Chrono Trigger](https://www.mobygames.com/game/chrono-trigger)
  • - [Sonic Mania](https://www.mobygames.com/game/sonic-mania)
  • - [Homestuck](https://www.homestuck.com/)
  • - [Undertale](https://www.mobygames.com/game/undertale)
  • - [Tim Follin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Follin)
  • - [Nier's terrible trophy](https://www.thegamer.com/nier-replicant-daredevil-trophy-kaine/)
  • - [Deadly Premonition](https://www.mobygames.com/game/deadly-premonition)
  • - [Poison](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_(Final_Fight))
  • - [Birdetta](https://www.mariowiki.com/Birdo)
  • - [Earth Angel bar](https://yakuza.fandom.com/wiki/Earth_Angel)
  • - [Erica Anderson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erica_Anderson)
  • - [Saints Row](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/saints-row-series)
  • - [Razer E3 keynote](https://www.razer.com/events/razer-e3-keynote)
  • - [Stadia is dead](https://kotaku.com/google-says-everything-at-stadia-is-fine-as-the-water-1846896205)
  • - [Amazon buys the CryEngine](https://kotaku.com/sources-amazon-spent-big-bucks-on-cryteks-engine-1696008878)
  • - [Amazon Games probably one of the worst disasters in gamedev](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-01-29/amazon-game-studios-struggles-to-find-a-hit)
  • - [Micro Machines](https://www.mobygames.com/game/micro-machines)
  • - [Magic Kid Googoo](https://bootleggames.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_Kid_Googoo)
  • - [Armadillo](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/armadillo)
  • - [ATB](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_system#Active_Time_Battle)
  • - [Knights of the Round](https://www.mobygames.com/game/knights-of-the-round)
  • - [Fuzhou Waixing Computer Science & Technology Co.,LTD](https://bootleggames.fandom.com/wiki/Fuzhou_Waixing_Computer_Science_%26_Technology_Co.,LTD)
  • - [Strip Fighter II](https://bootleggames.fandom.com/wiki/Strip_Fighter_II) (nsfw, but only in theory)
  • - [Another World](https://www.mobygames.com/game/out-of-this-world)
  • - [Canabalt](https://www.mobygames.com/game/canabalt)
  • - [Normal Mario Bros](https://fairysvoice.net/smb1romhacks/Normal_Mario_Bros/)
  • - [Bethesda and Madden](https://kotaku.com/before-elder-scrolls-bethesda-helped-create-madden-5816920)
  • - [The Edge Guy](https://kotaku.com/after-four-years-an-industry-scourge-loses-his-edge-476590339)
  • - [Tommy Tallarico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Tallarico)
  • - [Mamoru Samuragochi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamoru_Samuragochi)
  • **Recommendations:**
    **Brandon:** [Ace Combat 3 soundtrack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S5ZpFWA16g&list=RD0S5ZpFWA16g&start_radio=1&rv=0S5ZpFWA16g), Liz's [Sounds From The Abyss mixes](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEdRlER1F5rGvaoE-XbV6jz6OymxQw4jx)
    **Frank**: Sleep, drink water
    **Liz**: Do stretches, [Ross's Game Dungeon](https://www.youtube.com/user/chilledsanity), [The Blood Zone](https://thebloodzone.libsyn.com/)

    Support on [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit)

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    {“sticky”:true}

    >

    Can listening to a game’s soundtrack spoil the game? (18:00)

    the brief mention of star wars in this question reminded me of the fact that the soundtrack for the Phantom Menace was released 2 weeks prior to the release of the movie and it included some tracks called:

    “Qui-Gon’s Noble End”
    “The High Council Meeting and Qui-Gon’s Funeral”

    and that's just great lmao

    @“穴”#p35900 makes me think of this incredible bit from Vanity Fair around the time of episode 8:

    [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/9Q3aTjm.png]

    Hmmm, I wonder why we have “video unavailable, play on youtube” on our video there!?

    ### HELLO

    @“exodus”#p35906 this happens when I try to embed videos here sometimes. Try adding ? to the end of the URL, that sometimes works for me.

    Liz coming out swinging against Virt at the end there really caught me off guard, which does make it the exact kind of inflammatory eye catching contrarianism that I'd expect to see in a music publication.

    As far as spiritual successors go, I think Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night gets *pretty close* to surpassing SotN largely because of the built in randomizer. As a base game I don't think it can match the charm of (or the soundtrack) of the original, but that randomizer is great.

    I wonder how many games use leitmotifs in a way that would enable a careful listener to spoil themselves just via soundtrack.

    @“exodus”#p35906 @“billy”#p35927 question mark added, but still no dice. my guess: i linked and posted this before youtube was done “processing” the upload, which is the only thing that was different than normal. i’ll have to be more patient next time!!

    also while it’s on my mind: homestuck, as a concept, isn’t that complicated. it’s a webcomic that uses flash animation for important moments. it has an “adventure game” framing device, but that’s pretty cosmetic.

    it’s also damn near impossible to read, because the first two arcs are devoted heavily toward frustrating the audience (this is because it originally started as a forum game, each panel posted in response to somebody’s “input,” text adventure style). it is also *extremely long* and goes way too deep on worldbuilding, but uses some interesting “game mechanics” to do so. It’s genuinely rewarding if you get through it all, but I can’t in good faith recommend anybody even attempt to do so nowadays.

    >

    @“esper”#p35894 Can listening to a game’s soundtrack spoil the game?

    can i just disagree real quick with the answer you guys gave here?

    IMO sometimes a choice of music can be extremely surprising and impactful in a way that might not work as well if you heard the OST before.

    Take Mother 3, for example. The part where you're || talking to the super tall guy and all of a sudden, a freakin [GYMNOPEDIE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-u6JUBcjPM&ab_channel=GilvaSunner) starts playing, all compressed and beautifully shitty sounding. || That absolutely blew my mind to bits, whereas if I had listened to the OST prior I would just go "oh that's where they put that song. Nice."

    >

    @“esper”#p35894 Can realistic human jumping be fun in video games? (49:15)<

    https://youtu.be/ZW_eExHpTZI
    Jumping doesn't get much more real than this guy. While it wasn't really fun, it was grounded in reality which made it more immersive.

    @“Southeastpaw”#p35979 (except he never gets tired)

    I had forgotten that Amazon had a games division, and reading that bloomberg article reveals how they set it up in one of the worst ways possible. I learnt some stuff from it for if I ever try to start a game studio.

    I think tesla would probably make a decent video game console, I'm not a fan of the company but they sure do get stuff done. It would probably have an awful controller though, I'm imagining a dual shock boomerang with touch screens for the dpad and face buttons.

    @“beets”#p35983 imagining holding that controller sent a shiver down my spine

    >

    @“fugazi57”#p35978 IMO sometimes a choice of music can be extremely surprising and impactful in a way that might not work as well if you heard the OST before.

    A great example of this for me is in a game that IC loves to hate, Persona 5. That game has an absolutely _banging_ soundtrack in general, but there is a song used in a boss fight that changes as the boss changes phases. I hadn't heard the OST prior to playing, and that song progression was truely surprising and impressive in its own right.

    (what I'm talking about, marked as spoilers)
    ||_Rivers in the Desert_'s instrumental version plays during the start of the Shido fight, and is a great theme for that fight in general. After you phase Shido, a small cutscene plays and when we get control again the song restarts. The player is left thinking "ok cool, next phase" ... _and then the lyrics kick in_ and the whole scene just becomes something new and greater. (I also love the idea that this is not Shido's boss theme, but this is _Joker's_ boss theme, telling Shido that now he's fucked)||

    I‘m glad that you all didn’t bring up Mario 35 in the first segment. I loved Mario 35, but I know it wasn't very popular in the Insert Credit community.

    I was fine with it! But I suspect that has to do with me not caring that much about mario, so if it‘s a little better or a little worse that’s all kinda whatever to me! I played it for 30 minutes and moved along, just like every other mario game from the last two decades (owned)

    >

    @“exodus”#p36045 (owned)

    It's me. I'm the one who... owns a lot of Mario games. 😝

    Edit: I should have said "It's-a-me." I apologize to the Insert Credit Community for missing this joke.

    >

    @“TheFragranceOfDarkCoffee”#p35937 Liz coming out swinging against Virt at the end there really caught me off guard, which does make it the exact kind of inflammatory eye catching contrarianism that I’d expect to see in a music publication.

    there's a longer (and pettier) history to that... but it's not really worth getting into. lol

    >

    @“esper”#p35955 it’s also damn near impossible to read, because the first two arcs are devoted heavily toward frustrating the audience (this is because it originally started as a forum game, each panel posted in response to somebody’s “input,” text adventure style).

    Wait... did this concept not persist throughout it? I knew that's what it began life as (I had started to read it a few times before and never got to the point it really *became* anything), I didn't know that was ever dropped at some point. I thought that's where a lot of the... zaniness(?) came from