Ep. 198 - YSCBA, with Ash Parrish and Liz Ryerson

Really appreciate the depth of this episode's second half discussion. Most outlets are like “Bully is bad… but how about the frame rate in the upcoming Activision game?”

great episode! I like the longer discussion format to cover topics that 6 minutes doesn't work for. I like the idea that it pops up here and there when called for.

death's dynamic shroud.wmv - I'll Try Living Like This is so good. Susumu Hirasawa samples, Ennio Morricone samples...and not just references for references sake. tasty

liz mentioned workers co-ops as a way for smaller companies to level out real material power.

richard wolff in general is a great resource for information on workers co-ops, and here...


...he goes into a couple of structures of worker co-ops.

At the “DOOM=Doom” section, i was thinking “well that's more thrash” and then Brandon saying basically the same thing really had me like “these are my people”.

I definitely think Bloodborne is Doom Metal but got robbed just cause Dark Souls already made it in! I rarely listen to "real music" while playing videogames, but sometimes I'll throw on some SUNN O))) or Sleep and just do chalice dungeon co-op or whatever.

Awesome discussion. What really bothers me about the whole pushback to making games more diverse/inclusive is that I think it comes from a place of gamers feeling historically marginalized, but rather than welcoming in other marginalized groups and making things more cool/diverse/interesting they instead feel the need to defend this weird 80's idea of what “nerd culture” means.

On a lighter note, does anyone know the Mexican vaporwave band Brandon was talking about? That sounds rad.

And @"esper"#11 I think sticking tightly to the questions is great, but taking an occasional break for discussions like this is definitely welcome.


@“manalive”#p41052 On a lighter note, does anyone know the Mexican vaporwave band Brandon was talking about? That sounds rad.

Jesse Cassettes! https://jessecassettes.bandcamp.com/album/deluxe

@“Jaffe”#p41053 Thanks! being a mexican kind of ex-vaporwave artist I was also wondering which artist was brandon referencing, I thought it was Sentidos Apuestos since they also do vaporwave mexican ballads and pop music. I wasn't aware of Jesse Cassettes since I stepped out of the scene in 2017 because I was embarrased of my work lol They are amazing! A lot of my work was also luis miguel based!

Another cool mexican vaporwave/future funk artist is [MACROSS 82-99](https://macross82-99.bandcamp.com/album/shibuya-meltdown)


Give them a listen!

Also I have noticed a trend of a lot of trans women (including myself) being vaporwave artists before they transition and that's interesting to me. In high school during a semester I even ran a vaporwave after school club where we would make vaporwave music and visual art!

I had no idea macross 82-99 was from mexico! neat. yeah, it was Jesse Cassettes I was talking about, maybe I forgot to recommend them in an actual episode? Hmm.

Anyway this stuff has got me wondering if I should actually listen to some Luis Miguel, so if you have any recs for where to start @"穴"#p41055 I'd be interested in hearing them.

Also... maybe we should make a list of mexican vaporwave folks over here (specifically those that use latin american source music too)


by the way: the youtube version for this episode had some flashing lights around 24:00 I tried to tone down, but it apparently didn't change much in the final export. i've since applied a big blur via youtube's built-in tools over those moments, massive apologies to anyone who had to deal with that.

@"穴"#p41055 i also would be down for any mexican vaporwave!! i'm big into macross 88-92 lately and would love to explore the space.

Darkest Dungeon is pretty Doom Metal. Does anyone want to start the band Darkest Dungeon with me

Sample: a death by inches… ~ riff that praises the devil ~

@“exodus”#p41065 hmmm there‘s a lot to be said about Luis Miguel, he’s an extremely iconic figure and one of the biggest artists in latin-american pop music, but I don‘t know if I would recommend listening to him other than to be familair with such an important figure of mexican and latin american music, because when it comes to boleros and pop music there’s a lot of better artists.

He has some extremely popular catchy pop tunes and romantic ballads. [His most popular song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG7MPEQm1-w) has almost half a billion views on youtube and its a cover of [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osVaF4t-zFc), in fact most of his popular tracks are just covers!

Most of his lyrics and the image that he was selling in the 80's and 90's are very problematic, deeply sexist and entangled with machismo, the thing that makes him perfect for vaporwave though ([other than his cheesy pop music of his teenage years](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfm27EuGuQk)) is that he was the original "mirrey".
I was going to explain what mirrey means but I'll just quote [an article that I just found](https://medium.com/swap-language/6-mexican-class-stereotypes-overexplained-f26f4a64f388)

"The term mirrey — literally “my king” — originated as a common greeting in the wealthy Mexican Lebanese community, but emerged in the late 2000s as a distinct stereotype: rich boys, typified by conspicuous consumption, entitled attitudes, alcoholism, and an acute lack of awareness of their privilege relative to the rest of society. They dress similarly, in white shirts unbuttoned halfway down, expensive loafers, and pricy accessories like sunglasses and watches. They can be thought of as the extreme of the fresa world.
Again, mirreyes use a specific lexicon, with suffixes like -uki (peduki, lobuki), -irri (Acapulquirri) and words like paps, papá, lord, and the word mirrey itself. This speaking style is easily parodied in memes and on-screen personalities, making the mirrey a popular archetype of Mexican comedy writers"
(to that I would just add that they tend to be mostly caucassian)

And in the 80's and 90's media companies such as [Televisa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Televisa) used Luis Miguel to sell that kind of privileged consumption-based sexist lifestyle as aspirational to young people (I mean I think there are equivalents to that in most countries) before he shifted his career towards boleros and romantic ballads as he got older.

All of that and his ubiquity in mexican pop culture made him the perfect target for vaporwave music, especially with vaporwave being about anti-consumption and nostalgia rooted in (as[ bifo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Berardi) calls it) “[the slow cancellation of the future](http://epiloguemag.com/2020/08/the-future-is-cancelled/)”.

That being said if you want to know what luis miguel sounds like I would say [this album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTkJ-nP6pXY&list=PLa91b8EFPniUl78IIaLTMvBPkByFDYpUh&index=8) represents his pop/romantic ballad sound and[ this album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjH-DMD72gw) his bolero sound.


@“exodus”#p41065 Also… maybe we should make a list of mexican vaporwave folks over here (specifically those that use latin american source music too)


@“esper”#p41066 i also would be down for any mexican vaporwave!! i’m big into macross 88-92 lately and would love to explore the space.

Latinwave Records is a label from ecuador created to promote hispanic vaporwave artists and they have two large compilations which are great to get started, some of the songs do sample latin american music and some are more future funk and there are some great artists on both compilations.


As for my personal recomendations starting with artists that sample hispanic music:

My personal favorite in high school was Sentidos Apuestos from Monterrey, Mexico. I would describe them as being more on the fun side rather than being very atmospheric; they tracks tend to be quite simple in that they just slow down the songs and don't add a lot but they are still amazing.

(my favorite song from this album is /Çπɑ̃Я£iɛ ЅμФ✝п/)

// P E N T I U M 2 // ダニ froim Guayaquil, Ecuador is similar to Sentidos Apuestos but moodier an more contemplative, they started the Latinwave Recrods label. I love this album as well.


索里亞納公司 Soriana Corp from Mexico makes some really good[ cumbiawave](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAlFD_TuIhk)

Joselito Lokote from Chihuahua has an album that I would consider the doom metal of mexican vaporwave. The reverb is heavy with this one.


As for latin american vaporwave artists that don't sample as heavily and lean more towards future funk:

A recent album by BABEFAKE from Lima, Peru, This album is a bit more jazzy and it is excellent

From Hermosillo, Mexico this is a funky lofi synthwave album that's really good.


Skule Toyama from Guadalajara, Jalisco, made one of the greatest dance future funk albums that I have heard, this album is just simply amazing. I used to talk to him a lot back in high school, we were kind of online friends but I lost contact with him, he is the same age as me and we would talk a lot about music. He was in a totally different level than me music-making-wise though, his stuff is just so good!



@“穴”#p41075 He has some extremely popular catchy pop tunes and romantic ballads. His most popular song has almost half a billion views on youtube and its a cover of this song, in fact most of his popular tracks are just covers!

His is my favorite version of this song :) even though the sentiment behind the lyrics is quite different than the original lol

Insert Credit is one of the very few spaces in gaming where you can hear six minutes of completely silly word-association in-jokes as well as social and cultural critiques from non-majority humans in the game industry, and majority humans who are trying to improve their own actions and make the industry and culture better for all of us. I never felt that the tone was inconsistent and it was all very in-character for the show.

Hosts, panelists, and production staff should all be incredibly proud of what you're putting out into the world.

After listening to this ep and reading the thread above, I have since listened to The Blood Zone 10a and have just started 10b. I think I'll have to go grab the previous 9 episodes and cue them up.

@“rejj”#p41143 thanks for listening!! i‘ve been trying to keep the subject matter intentionally diverse/kind of only do episodes when i feel like so i don’t get burned out on one thing.

@“穴”#p41075 wow so many recommendations! i'm going to have to look into these at some point.

I looked up that vid complaining about ASh‘s Baldurs Gate article, and the video and comments were all 100% bonkers and i felt like i was going crazy. I started-then-deleted like 3 versions of a comment, and then decided to just let it go because there’s no reasoning with these people.

It's bad enough just SEEING this stuff, can't imagine getting it as a response to something I wrote.

I tell myself I maintain a healthy distance from this crap by not being successful at all in my artistic endeavors lol.

Okay so I did listen to the episode so I‘ll just follow up to say that no, it’s not disruptive to the format of the show! You know, it's honestly kind of amazing how much you can trick a listener into feeling ready for something new by bumping the podmusic and putting in a “break” in the middle, which, for all we know, could be 0 seconds, or it could be an hour.

I am still going to be a total drama queen and say that I think there is something to the gesture of making this conversation intentionally disruptive when it needs to be but the way it felt in this episode was wonderful.

I'll of course not learn to anticipate these segments 'cause that would be weirdly perverse I think but I'll always be happy to see one.

Yeah to weigh in on that, I am always in favor of Long Podcast Episodes, so I am always down for a tangent like that, especially getting into That Real Shit.

I am v stressed about my dog's health and my wife was going out to the vet, and suggested i sit and chill, and I said I won't be able to before I finish the dishes, and she said "Well at least listen to something relaxing" and i half-jokingly said "yeah I'm gonna listen to people talk about the rampant sexism and racism in the videogame industry" and she was like "Well that doesn't sound like a good idea lol" and i was like "no it's weirdly calming, like the subject matter is sucky but i feel in my element listening to people like this" (especially in the current context of a near-standstill on real-life social interaction.

So not only do i appreciate the in-depth discussion on the topic, I appreciate the concept of "hey let's just hang a bit" as well.