Ep. 205 - A Richness of Embarrassments, with Kelsey Lewin

### Ep. 205 - A Richness of Embarrassments, with Kelsey Lewin

Co-Director of the Video Game History Foundation and Co-Owner of Pink Gorilla Games [Kelsey Lewin](https://twitter.com/kelslewin) rejoins the panel to cover twitch leaks, EVE Oncrime, and the most difficult boss fight in the Braid franchise. Original music by Kurt Feldman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMa5j-B-UEk

**Questions this week:**

  • 1. Previously on Insert Credit: Does the intended commercial reach of a game have any meaningful impact on it as a creative product? (03:37)
  • 2. How would the game industry change if everyone’s salaries were completely transparent? (08:15)
  • 3. From [Ash Parrish](https://twitter.com/adashtra): What would be the most interesting reveal if your gaming information leaked? (12:46)
  • 4. What is the most excited you have been by a video game as an adult? (19:21)
  • 5. Who would be the worst video character to sit next to on an international flight? (24:46)
  • 6. Dirtbag Larry Bang asks: Which video games surprised you with the feeling of inhabiting a specific character? (30:58)
  • 7. What are the most exciting crimes in video game history? (37:39)
  • 8. Is there any way the Gamergate TV show could be even remotely a good idea? (45:02)
  • 9. Violence Island (50:05)
  • **LIGHTNING ROUND**: Who Is This For? (01:06:09)

    **A SMALL SELECTION OF THINGS REFERENCED:**

  • - [The DK Rap](https://donkeykong.fandom.com/wiki/DK_Rap)
  • - [Fortnite Rips Off Among Us](https://kotaku.com/among-us-devs-arent-feeling-fortnite-s-new-impostors-1847505281)
  • - [Shenmue](https://www.mobygames.com/game/dreamcast/shenmue)
  • - [Far Cry 6](https://www.mobygames.com/game/far-cry-6)
  • - [Famous Actor Giancarlo Esposito](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002064/)
  • - [The World Famous Vincent](https://twitter.com/vincentdiamante)
  • - [Twitch source code and creator payouts leak](https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/6/22712250/twitch-hack-leak-data-streamer-revenue-steam-competitor)
  • - [Cyberpunk 2077](https://www.mobygames.com/game/cyberpunk-2077)
  • - [Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection](https://www.mobygames.com/game/street-fighter-30th-anniversary-collection)
  • - [Samurai Showdown NeoGeo Collection](https://www.mobygames.com/game/samurai-shodown-neogeo-collection)
  • - [Mega Man: Legacy Collection](https://www.mobygames.com/game/mega-man-legacy-collection)
  • - [Mount & Blade: Warband](https://www.mobygames.com/game/mount-blade-warband)
  • - [Crypt of the NecroDancer](https://www.mobygames.com/game/crypt-of-the-necrodancer)
  • - [John Linneman](https://twitter.com/dark1x)
  • - [Apple put U2's Songs of Innocence on everyone's iTunes once](https://www.eonline.com/news/1071481/remember-when-apple-forced-a-u2-album-on-us-all)
  • - [Yakuza 0](https://www.mobygames.com/game/yakuza-0)
  • - [Deadly Premonition](https://www.mobygames.com/game/deadly-premonition)
  • - [Fallout 3](https://www.mobygames.com/game/fallout-3)
  • - [Scribblenauts](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nintendo-ds/scribblenauts)
  • - [Feel the Magic XY](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nintendo-ds/feel-the-magic-xyxx)
  • - [Playdate](https://play.date/)
  • - [Katamari Damacy](https://www.mobygames.com/game/katamari-damacy)
  • - [Leisure Suit Larry](https://leisuresuitlarry.fandom.com/wiki/Larry_Laffer)
  • - [Kraid](https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/Kraid)
  • - [The Colossi](https://teamico.fandom.com/wiki/The_Colossi)
  • - [Karnov](https://www.mobygames.com/game/karnov)
  • - [Target: Terror](https://www.mobygames.com/game/target-terror)
  • - [Clay Fighter](https://www.mobygames.com/game/clay-fighter)
  • - [Gex](https://gex.fandom.com/wiki/Gex)
  • - [Bubsy](https://bubsy.fandom.com/wiki/Bubsy_(character))
  • - [Blasto](https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/blasto)
  • - [Conker the Squirrel](https://conker.fandom.com/wiki/Conker_the_Squirrel)
  • - [Mario 64 eye](https://www.mariowiki.com/Eye_to_Eye_in_the_Secret_Room)
  • - [Vin Diesel](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004874/)
  • - [Chris Farley](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000394/)
  • - [Bobby Moynihan](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1293885/)
  • - [The Iron Giant (1999)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0129167/)
  • - [Valis](https://www.mobygames.com/game/valis)
  • - [True Detective](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2356777/)
  • - [F.E.A.R.](https://www.mobygames.com/game/fear-first-encounter-assault-recon)
  • - [Deus Ex](https://www.mobygames.com/game/deus-ex)
  • - [Dietrich](https://www.wired.com/2007/08/gizmondos-dietr/)
  • - [Disney's DuckTales](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/disneys-ducktales)
  • - [Whatever Happened To Pizza At McDonalds?](http://www.pizzaatmcdonalds.com/)
  • - [Mary-Kate and Ashley: Magical Mystery Mall](https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/mary-kate-and-ashley-magical-mystery-mall)
  • - [Turok: Rage Wars](https://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/turok-rage-wars)
  • - [EVE Online](https://www.mobygames.com/game/eve-online)
  • - [Gamergate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign))
  • - [Zoë Quinn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%AB_Quinn)
  • - [CBS backtracks on The Activist](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/16/1037960999/cbs-backtracks-on-the-activist-after-a-backlash-including-from-one-of-its-hosts)
  • - [Guitar Hero](https://guitarhero.fandom.com/wiki/Guitar_Hero)
  • - [Rock Band](https://rockband.fandom.com/wiki/Rock_Band_Wiki)
  • - [Gomez](https://fezthegame.fandom.com/wiki/Gomez)
  • - [Tim](https://braid.fandom.com/wiki/Tim)
  • - [Kratos](https://godofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Kratos)
  • - [Normy's Beach Babe-O-Rama](https://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/normys-beach-babe-o-rama)
  • - [The Prince](https://katamari.fandom.com/wiki/The_Prince)
  • - [Axel](https://twistedmetal.fandom.com/wiki/Axel)
  • **Recommendations:**
    **Brandon:** [Kanopy](https://www.kanopy.com/), [Les Archives by Jun Chikuma](https://junechikuma.bandcamp.com/)
    **Frank**: [hoopla](https://www.hoopladigital.com/), [F.I.S.T.: Forged in Shadow Torch](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1330470/FIST_Forged_In_Shadow_Torch/)
    **Kelsey**: [The Life & Times of Video Games Ep. 33 - MobyGames](https://lifeandtimes.games/episodes/files/33)
    **Jaffe**: [Libby](https://libbyapp.com/welcome), [Squid Game](https://www.netflix.com/title/81040344), [Kaiji: Ultimate Survivor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiji:_Ultimate_Survivor)

    Support on [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit)

    Subscribe: [RSS](https://insertcredit.com/show/rss), [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/insert-credit-show/id1509363651), [Google Podcasts](https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9pbnNlcnRjcmVkaXQuY29tL3Nob3cvcnNzLw), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/6CwWZE5p7vazIV1jrV9hln), and more!

    {“sticky”:true}

    >

    @“esper”#p45300 What is the most excited you have been by a video game as an adult?

    Probably Gran Turismo 7 for the PS5. The recent trailer is a supercut of old Gran Turismo intros done in the new engine, while featuring cars that were prominent in the older games. It's really like Polyphony was like "we know what you want, and we're gonna give it to ya". I've never felt pandered to like that but that enthusiasm was really refreshing to feel.

    @“marlfuchs2”#p45304 only mildly ashamed to admit FF7R got me in the same way. that one Meant A Lot To Me.

    I like it when Jaffe congratulates me for completing the episode, thanks Jaffe!

    “do normies really have opinions?”

    I wouldn't have taken this for a Frank sorta game but I clearly have no clue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDh_WSOHDek

    @“穴”#p45308 The new sign-off was inspired by the comment I’ve gotten a few times that it is sometimes difficult to make it through a whole episode

    I love when you guys fumble around normie stuff haha

    Allow me to offer you some normie, 34 year old, opinions:

    U2 is a good band with good intentions, some incredible music and a LOT of shallow 90-00s appropriated garbage. They do have a huge fanbase who feel very strongly about them. For a casual fan it's also probably an upper echelon show that would have many Brandons and Franks who randomly end up at a show saying "wow I knew so many of these songs!" The hardcorees are not just going for the hits they know. Alex saying "you love them or you don't care" is probably the most accurate.

    Here's a good U2 song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsrPEUt2Dg
    Here's a bad U2 song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcDNilZbZg8

    Aerosmith is a bad band with a vacuum of intention. I loved them until 2004 when my cool teacher laughed at me for liking them, throwing me into an existential identity crisis at 17. They truly are not good, however, anyone could probably have fun at a show and say "Hey I know this song." So I think the initial exploration of U2 applies pretty accurately to Aerosmith.

    Here's a good Aerosmith song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_GchifNRh0
    Here's a (well there's a lot of bad so instead WTF) Aerosmith song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yXdbXl-lno

    SNL is fun and good and middling and fine. I've probably seen every episode since I started watching as a kid. It's an institution. I think that most people think that they're supposed to know about it or care about it or whatever. If you don't care and just watch every week it's great. It's one of the most over and underrated things around I think.

    You guys can check out normie stuff sometimes. It's ok! It's not all bad!

    @“hellomrkearns”#p45309 it's a good question

    Re: normie stuff, we know plenty about it, that's the whole thing. Like I was born in the United States in the 80s, I have heard u2 and Aerosmith and seen snl. It's unavoidable and the blandest part of culture so the fumbling is more in trying not to be a huge jerk about it (for me). Snl still pops up on my feed when someone does something bad or racist and the last I heard from u2 was the apple thing, and I can't imagine somebody presenting me with a compelling reason to re-engage with either of them. Normie stuff is fine! Just not for talking or thinking about. It's what you seek out when not wanting to think (at best).

    re: the brandon v the panel in roleplaying as the character you play as

    now we know why brandon does not like Mario. when brandon plays Mario he does not "WAHOOOO" or "YIPPEEEE"

    Simultaneously happy my forum post was mentioned on the podcast :slight_smile: and disappointed that it didn't spark more interesting discussion like it did here :frowning:

    I don‘t know or care about U2 at all, but still somehow listened to the entire run of alt-comedians Scott Ackerman and Adam Scott’s “U Talkin U2 2Me?” podcast, so am aware that there are die-hard fans out there (the show got much better when it became a Talking Heads show).

    It was funny to hear Frank come at Brandon for not identifying with game characters - especially since Frank likes Ron Gilbert so much, and that was the mentality behind the SCUMM games. Unlike the second-person text adventures, which pointedly featured "you" as the protagonist, the third-person SCUMM games maintained a wall between you and Guybrush (or whoever), with the parser commands and mouse clicks being more directives given to the character than the player occupying some kind of avatar.
    [citation needed, obviously. I remember reading/hearing Ron make this exact point, but there are so many interviews out there about his LucasArts output, I can't dig it up on a weekday morning]

    My favourite part is when the gang make fun of Gex for making a bunch of lame outdated 90s references and less than 5 minutes later make a bunch of 90s references with absolutely no indication of self awareness.

    My second favourite part is when Frank names obscure Aerosmith albums seemingly off the top of his head.

    By the way Jaffe, I want to remind you of my Violence Island suggestion, which I feared was too disparate but in the wake of Leisure Suit Larry vs Kratos.... Mario vs Majima. You know it needs to be determined.

    One of my favorite recurring incidents on the podcast is “Alex Jaffe is familiar with a bit of pop culture ephemera and no one else is.” This time it was the existence of Bobby Moynihan. I like it because it‘s exactly what happens with this sort of thing between my wife and I (I’m Alex Jaffe, she's the panel).

    On U2 and normies, obviously there are people who LOVE U2 but I think they also fit a particular category of rock band. Radio host Tom Scharpling would call them the bands that "stuck around". The ones that didn't break up, kept touring and making albums. They have their "serious" fans but also are very appealing to the normies. I think this is a particularly common thing with rock bands. Newer (at least newer compared to U2) examples would be Foo Fighters, Weezer, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Green Day. To me, these bands have very little in common outside of being popular rock bands and yet I know a type of person that would be excited to see all four. Maybe I'm over generalizing, but they just want to have an above average live band that is gonna sound good at the arena with some decent parking options.

    >

    @“coreywilliams”#p45334 Tom Scharpling

    first thing I think of re aerosmith too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9CuOyJ8n0o

    @“yeso”#p45336 Tom talking to kids is one of the best things in the world.

    [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/M6uRJdr.jpeg]


    @“goonbag”#p45331 I was extremely surprised at the casual aerosmith references too, goodness.

    @"coreywilliams"#325 I think you're right about that sort of band, they're also the sort that I would immediately switch off if they came on in my presence, I guess there's a connection there!!

    Shoutout to Jaffe‘s Kaiji shoutout! I love Kaiji I’ll probably be watching Squid Game because people told me it's like that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vv_u00Yk6w