Ep. 219 - The Insert Credit Consolebration

Can‘t wait for the PS5 to be in the eventual best gaming PC’s of all time ranking episode.

Tim has become more soundboard than man

Okay I finished the episode.

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@“JoJoestar”#p54086 ||cómo de seguera es la lista de Brandon||

Turns out, not very much! **_HOWEVER_** there is the argument to be made that it was strategically so, in the sense of subtly manipulating the other guests to name all the Sega consoles before him so he could use the extra space for all the obscure nonsense culminating with the Jaguar. Therefore, the possible only conclusion is that Brandon is ||un seguero táctico, un seguero metódico, el Sun Tzu, el Zhuge Liang, el Napoleón de los segueros; PERO no el Segata Sanshiro de los segueros, título reservado exclusivamente para alguien que afronte todas las batallas cara a cara, y con una lista de no menos de 7 consolas de SEGA.||

Jokes aside, this episode was really good! I feel like I'm gonna need to listen to it a second time with a pen and a notebook to take notes on all the games and interesting stuff that was mentioned during the podcast (even though Esper did a tremendous job listing everything above!), and I mean that as a great compliment.

I also found the inclusion of PC, something that for the longest time has been to me _the opposite_ of a console, in the sense of being "the other big type of device where you can play videogames on different from a console" a bit annoying at first. But after thinking about it I've come around it and now I think it's very funny that it was selected as the very first pick. It's exactly the kind of amusing contrarianism that I can't help but laugh at, specially in the context of a place such as this one, where everyone enjoys taking the piss and being a weirdo (apologies to all insert credit forum users that don't consider themselves weirdos but also GET OUTTA HERE).

The other thing I wanted to comment is that even though it was meant as a joke, those top 20 lists that were briefly mentioned would be exactly the kind of stuff that could work great as bonus content for the Patreon. I mean, you can also post those here of course (maybe it's even a better idea), but I think that is definitely interesting content that would be neat to have as an extra.

What do you guys think?

Frank really kicked the door in with that first choice lol, as soon as I heard it I started rubbing my hands together in anticipation.

Outstanding stuff everyone!

@“JoJoestar”#p54197 no joke! those lists absolutely are going on patreon. :sunglasses:

I guess it's too late, but in retrospect, I think the whole question of the inclusion of the PC on to a Console list would be a lot more fair and make more sense in contrast to the rest of the list if its presence on the list was to represent the library of games either exclusive to PC, most suited to be played on PC, or having that distinctly PC Gaming vibe. Or, at least, it should have been weighed far more heavily as its own distinct platform rather than just a Technically Correct Answer.

Like, with the caveats I don't have to repeat here, playing games on a PC is most often the best experience. But is all of that PC Gaming? Absolutely not, we all know what we're talking about when we say that even if we didn't pick up those magazines back in the day. Frank did bring this fact up of course, but it unfortunately didn't lend much to the discussion.

Not to mention, it seems unfair to many other consoles on this list that PC's capability to play all of the games that it can play was considered into its placement in the ranking, while consoles were judged harshly in that regard, with purposeful exclusion of consideration towards backwards compatibility. I think that that was a good idea for recognizing the difference in stature between the consoles with their backwards compatibility brethren that made it on this list, but PC's presence on the list was almost pigeonholed as just being that.

Maybe the panel would end up putting PC Gaming on a similar place in this list anyway, but I dunno, I think it could have broken the top half if it was going to be representing just the distinctive sections of its library. If you ask me, _RPG Maker_ is distinctly PC Gaming, that alone should be worth something.

@“rootfifthoctave”#p54131 the pro controller is alright, but I actually really like the 8bitdo controllers. The d-pad on the main one is real big and chunky. I love it for Celeste. Their recent one also has profiles that you can switch between instantaneously and two back paddle-esque buttons.

I was actually initially turned onto the brand by Tim's Kotaku videos, so I'm curious about how he's turned around on them

@“JoJoestar”#p54197 I absolutely was trying to manipulate everyone else into choosing Sega systems so I could add weirder ones, ha ha. I only added gba because I was worried it wouldn't get on there otherwise

GEMS is truly outrageous

@“hellomrkearns”#p54215 very good

But it was seriously used well a few times - wolverine adamantium rage's doom tracks, and x-men 2's adaptive ambient soundtrack most notably

Oh, @exodus do not listen to your friend Tim and instead listen to some guy on the internet: the 8bitdo Pro 2 is an excellent controller. It has become my controller of choice for both the Switch and PC.

Another option (and a cheap one at that!) is their
[USB adapter](https://www.8bitdo.com/wireless-usb-adapter/). I used this for a while, it lets you use a PS4 pad (for example, or any other wireless pad (check their compatibility list to be sure)) on the Switch and elsewhere you can plug a usb in to.

This was a fun episode.

On the topic of PCs my initial reaction was also that it is clearly different from a console. However, I can sort of see the argument in the sense that there are a whole bunch of games only available on PC. On the other hand even restricting to windows PC this spans like 25 years worth of games and as such it would probably become my default number one choice in a way that feels unfair.

Personally, I consider a PC to be much more than a gaming device, it is sort of the centerpiece of my house and I spend probably way to much of my time interacting with it. This includes internet, entertainment in the form of movies/television, work and yes gaming. It is also the centerpiece of my workplace where I spend the majority of my time using a PC for programming, running simulations, writing notes, writing papers etc. It is only really when I’m doing pure math that I use pen and paper a bit, although ultimately I will clean up any derivation and type it into latex before it is really usable.

However, while this is a partial reason for why I don’t normally think of it as a gaming console the main reason, which has already been articulated by previous posters, is probably that the PC, even restricting it to the “windows” pc does not correspond to a specific set of hardware. I think the intuitive definition of a console involves that it corresponds to a specific hardware platform.

For example when I was a kid, my stepdad had an Amiga that would sometimes be taken out for like a week and set up to a TV screen. He had a bunch of games for it (none original, just copied to floppy discs, piracy was certainly the norm in my experience), however, I also know that this is not the main reason he had an Amiga in the first place. The Amiga had an extensive set of work tools as well and I think his main interest was in the computer aspect of the device, i.e. programming etc. Of course by the time he married my mom he rarely used it anymore as PCs were generally better for the majority of his use cases. However, even so, I would not necessarily be against classifying it as a console. Mostly because, the majority of Amiga 500 or Amiga 1200 machines had very similar specs and as a platform I associate it strongly with those specific pieces of hardware (I did not really investigate this at all, maybe I am spouting total misinformation here). Also my personal use of the machine was identical to using a console.

Also, in relation to the episode, the Amiga is way better than at least the Atari 2600!

I do wonder about something like PC-98, I find that people sometimes talk about it as though it was console-like, but similar to the windows PC there was a whole bunch of hardware revisions and different specs in its lifetime, so I would not consider it a console by the same logic.

Also, while a PC can certainly be more powerful than a console I do think it is worth pointing out that for the same price as a PS5 or xbox series x it would be difficult go get a better gaming pc (forgetting about the supply issues), so I would hesitate to suggest that it is a no-brainer to get a PC if you are only interested in playing new games. I did recently buy a new mid-range PC and it was not exactly cheap, however, unlike consoles I have much more use-cases for it than gaming and would not pay a similar price for a console no matter how powerful it was. I do feel like PCs are comparatively more expensive in Japan than Denmark, but I cannot say for sure. On the other hand, it is pretty easy to get a cheap PC which can give you access to the majority of the vast back-library as well as most current indie games. Also, if money is an issue it is a lot easier to pirate stuff on an old PC than fiddling with modifying consoles.

Finally, I've been really happy with my Nintendo switch pro controller, it hasn't given me any problems so far and it is very comfortable for me. However, I have had one joy-con die on me and do find that somewhat unacceptable.

Stopping the episode 40-something minutes in to just say, hey, that thing Frank said about the grime track on the Wolverine game soundtrack is a cool tidbit I didn't know, so thanks! (and thanks @exodus for sticking up for grime as a genre)

Weighing in on the switch controller discussion, I too am puzzled at Tim dissing the 8bitdo offerings, because his praise of them back in his late-Kotaku-era was notable to me, considering his obsessive devotion to the likes of the Xbox Elite series controllers. I can't personally vouch for the Pro 2 as I have an earlier model without the apparently improved d-pad, but I recently got one of their USB adapters for another purpose, and having tried it on my switch for fun, I can confirm it Just Works, so that's an option.

I want to ask while we're talking about this stuff, though, and it doesn't have to be a switch-specific answer: what modern, currently-available controllers have a d pad that doesn't suck? Are there any that people here are willing to recommend _apart from_ the 8bitdo Pro 2? Personally I find sony's pretty poor (both DS4 & dualsense), and my Xbox One controller is... okay I guess? But nothing seems as reliable to me as, say, an old SNES controller. Crazy that this is a problem!

what a great episode dude. i love it. wish it could go on forever……

as for the windows PC... get it the heck out outta here!!!! i guess i think of two PCs: the type of normal person's PC that can be had very cheaply, where everything up through PS1 can be played with very little hassle, and then a modern gaming PC, which is for people who want to play at the upper end of the tech spectrum, and enjoy tinkering pretty much by definition. the former is flip the switch and play, the latter is as far from a console-like experience as you can get. i think the normal person's PC deserves some type of special mention, or category, if we are talking about the windows PC already (we shouldn't be though), because it's imminently available and also arguably the best way to experience some of these games, what with save states and rewind and filters and whatnot.

My mom did not like this episode

@“goonbag”#p54227 this answer is probably remarkably unhelpful, but I do really like the 8bitdo m30, which is a Saturn/six button genesis style with that big disc d pad, and the 8bitdo n30, which is basically a mini version of the pro2 with an NES style d-pad. I have never owned and maybe never used an SNES controllo, but it is often days that the sn30 pro/pro+/pro 2 dpad is very close to that

Hmm there must have been some kind of oversight. Perhaps all the panelists simply forgot the 3DS exists? That's the only explanation.

@“Jaffe”#p54232 what was wrong ? is she a big wonderswan fan ?

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@“whatsarobot”#p54245 Hmm there must have been some kind of oversight. Perhaps all the panelists simply forgot the 3DS exists? That’s the only explanation.

Even as someone who I think must got some sort of particular kind of stereoblindness(?), because I cannot see anything other than blurry nonsense when I, say, go to a 3D movie or turn on the Blurry Slider on my 3DS, I would say the 3DS is an excellent console. It kinda feels like a realization of what the DS was offering, even if its primary innovation was, my own previously justified bias aside, kinda dumb.

@“goonbag”#p54227 yeah grime rules, and though the beat is more traditional for the period, wouldn‘t something like silver bullet be an earlier influence of grime? I’ll grant that the wolverine track really sounds like grime but it can hardly be the first…

https://youtu.be/0InSlbNakOs

https://youtu.be/j9F7Ox2cv2A