Ep. 222 - Quakearoni, with Kelsey Lewin

### Ep. 222 - Quakearoni, with Kelsey Lewin

Video Game History Foundation Co-Director [Kelsey Lewin](https://twitter.com/kelslewin) joins Brandon, Tim and Alex in exploring duality, Caroque, and Spider-Man Root Canaling Pregnant Elsa. Hosted by Alex Jaffe, with Tim Rogers, Brandon Sheffield, and Kelsey Lewin. Edited by Esper Quinn, original music by Kurt Feldman.


**Questions this week:**

  • 1. Which video game series really got it right on the second try? (02:38)
  • 2. What was the state of video games during the second console generation? (08:05)
  • 3. What are the keys to a great co-op video game experience? (13:27)
  • 4. What would be the easiest game to adapt into a movie on a limited budget? (20:30)
  • 5. Design a fourth Frogger 2. (23:36)
  • 6. Dirtbag Evoline Theory: What is the impact of the Five Nights At Freddy's franchise on the games industry? (30:48)
  • 7. Violence Island (36:26)
  • **LIGHTNING ROUND**: Intellivision or ColecoVision? (46:47)

    Recommendations and Outro (53:45)


  • - [Sonic the Hedgehog 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/sonic-the-hedgehog-2)
  • - [Go Go Ackman 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/go-go-ackman-2)
  • - [Halo 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/halo-2)
  • - [Street Fighter II: The World Warrior](https://www.mobygames.com/game/street-fighter-ii-the-world-warrior)
  • - [Half-Life 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/half-life-2)
  • - [Persona 2: Eternal Punishment](https://www.mobygames.com/game/persona-2-eternal-punishment)
  • - [Persona](https://www.mobygames.com/game/persona)
  • - [R-Type Final 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/r-type-final-2)
  • - [Super Mario Bros. 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/super-mario-bros-2)
  • - [Turok 2: Seeds of Evil](https://www.mobygames.com/game/turok-2-seeds-of-evil)
  • - [Final Fantasy II](https://www.mobygames.com/game/final-fantasy-ii_)
  • - [Dragon Warrior II](https://www.mobygames.com/game/dragon-warrior-ii)
  • - [Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Realm Reborn](https://www.mobygames.com/game/final-fantasy-xiv-online-a-realm-reborn)
  • - [Final Fantasy VII: Remake](https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/final-fantasy-vii-remake)
  • - [Ganbare Goemon 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/ganbare-goemon-2)
  • - [Street Fighter Alpha 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/street-fighter-alpha-2)
  • - [Super Mario Galaxy 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/super-mario-galaxy-2)
  • - [Fairchild Channel F](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Channel_F)
  • - [Atari 2600](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600)
  • - [Magnavox Odyssey 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnavox_Odyssey)
  • - [ColecoVision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColecoVision)
  • - [Intellivision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellivision)
  • - [Quake III: Arena](https://www.mobygames.com/game/quake-iii-arena)
  • - [Resident Evil 5](https://www.mobygames.com/game/resident-evil-5)
  • - [Gears of War series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/gears-of-war-series)
  • - [EVE Online](https://www.mobygames.com/game/eve-online)
  • - [Lucky & Wild](https://www.mobygames.com/game/arcade/lucky-wild)
  • - [Super Mario Odyssey](https://www.mobygames.com/game/switch/super-mario-odyssey)
  • - [Pokémon: Let's Go! series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/pokmon-lets-go-series)
  • - [Sewer Shark](https://www.mobygames.com/game/sewer-shark)
  • - [Mad Dog McCree](https://www.mobygames.com/game/mad-dog-mccree)
  • - [Ground Zero Texas](https://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-cd/ground-zero-texas)
  • - [Night Trap](https://www.mobygames.com/game/night-trap)
  • - [Her Story](https://www.mobygames.com/game/her-story)
  • - [Sonic Forces](https://www.mobygames.com/game/sonic-forces)
  • - [Frogger II: ThreeeDeep!](https://www.mobygames.com/game/frogger-ii-threeedeep)
  • - [Frogger 2: Swampy's Revenge](https://www.mobygames.com/game/frogger-2-swampys-revenge)
  • - [Frogger 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/xbox360/frogger-2_)
  • - [Baroque](https://www.mobygames.com/game/baroque)
  • - [Baroque: Become a Meta-Being](https://www.mobygames.com/game/baroque-become-a-meta-being)
  • - [Ribbit King](https://www.mobygames.com/game/ribbit-king)
  • - [The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction](https://www.mobygames.com/game/incredible-hulk-ultimate-destruction)
  • - [Jumping Flash!](https://www.mobygames.com/game/jumping-flash)
  • - [Simple 2000 series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/simple-2000-series)
  • - [Kero Blaster](https://www.mobygames.com/game/kero-blaster)
  • - [Cave Story](https://www.mobygames.com/game/cave-story)
  • - [Cave Story's Secret Santa](https://www.mobygames.com/game/cave-storys-secret-santa)
  • - [Five Nights at Freddy's](https://www.mobygames.com/game/five-nights-at-freddys)
  • - [Willy's Wonderland (2021)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8114980/)
  • - [Pig (2021)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11003218/)
  • - [Taken (2008)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0936501/)
  • - [Doctor Eggman](https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Eggman)
  • - [Dizzy](https://dizzy.fandom.com/wiki/Dizzy)
  • - [William](https://nioh.fandom.com/wiki/William)
  • - [Sekiro](https://sekiro-shadows-die-twice.fandom.com/wiki/Sekiro)
  • - [Wander](https://teamico.fandom.com/wiki/Wander)
  • - [The King of All Cosmos](https://katamari.fandom.com/wiki/The_King_of_All_Cosmos)
  • - [Mister Mosquito](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mosquito)
  • - [Chibi-Robo](https://chibi-robo.fandom.com/wiki/Chibi-Robo)
  • **Recommendations:**
    **Brandon:** Cancel Spotify Pro
    **Tim**: Download [4K Video Downloader](https://download.cnet.com/4K-Video-Downloader/3000-2071_4-75450636.html), [download Insert Credit Show every week from YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1EWJbQIIhc) to feel more like a pirate
    **Kelsey**: [Liquid I.V.](https://www.liquid-iv.com/)
    **Esper**: my personal advice is to download all Insert Credit Show episodes from the [archive.org](http://archive.org) page, the canonical “source” files, to feel cool.

    Support on [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit)

    Subscribe: [RSS](https://insertcredit.com/show/rss), [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/insert-credit-show/id1509363651), [Google Podcasts](https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9pbnNlcnRjcmVkaXQuY29tL3Nob3cvcnNzLw), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/6CwWZE5p7vazIV1jrV9hln), and more!


    never forget


    Re: Frogger 2, I would add ridiculous numbers to it rather than have no numbers. Total value of things destroyed, and a damage counter with Disgaea/Tatsunoko x Capcom-sized numbers to reflect your wanton bazooka carnage.

    Also, Ridge Racer 64 rules.

    Edit: I'm glad that Tim picked up on the spirit of my choice of Wander vs The King of All Cosmos.

    An example of a game where P2 in co-op is a jump in and out experience is Jet Force Gemini.

    Once you get all the parts for your little “looks like a much better controller for this game than the one I'm currently using” companion, player 2 can press start and shoot at stuff.

    It kind of turns into a rail shooter where P1 determines the rails for P2.

    The Frogger 2 of today would need to be Frogger 2 99 where you play an infinitely scrolling Frogger level. There are mario kart type power blocks you can get in the road that will give you power ups or attack abilities like slow down, stop, and ice the road of the other 99 players. Goal is to last the longest.


    @“esper”#p57034 What would be the easiest game to adapt into a movie on a limited budget? (20:30)

    you could do an 80s style bmx or skateboard film with a license like skate or windjammers (i'd guess tony hawk would be too expensive). find some kids that can do skateboard tricks, write some loose story about a rich guy trying to tear down the abandoned mall where they skate, film it over a weekend.
    given the proven popularity of spectating esports, you could do an old fashioned sports film and just have the sport be a video game. imagine a film like _rocky_ or _warrior_ except instead of a strong guy that can fight it's a character based on justin wong. or those two brothers that keep winning classic tetris tournaments.
    having said that, i imagine "license to make a film based on a video game IP" somehow does not equate to "free reign to use footage and/or assets from the game in that film" due to some bureaucratic nightmare.

    @“rootfifthoctave”#p57086 As soon as you said Windjammers I immediately had The Mighty Ducks in my head, and a Windjammers version of that would be rad.

    @“rootfifthoctave”#p57086 ACTually an “underdog misfit” esports team is such a clear and straightforward idea for this that I‘ll be shocked if it hasn’t already been done. And if it hasn't… I should write one real quick and make my fortune


    @“esper”#p57034 Design a fourth Frogger 2. (23:36)

    I'd be surprised if this hasn't been done before, but a fourth Frogger 2 should be a reverse of the original scenario. You play as a frog driving down a freeway and running over as many tiny humans as possible. Hit a score threshold in the allotted time to advance to the next stage, a bulldozer through a swamp.

    @“exodus”#p57093 There was a tv show based on this by/starring the Game Grumps. Looks like it got cancelled pretty quickly.

    I loved the episode but I mostly loved learning about Ribbit King - it looks wild

    @“beets”#p57112 oh I think I vaguely heard about that. It's definitely not something I want to watch, despite everything I said!

    @"notthetoilet"#p57128 ribbit king is extremely good and funny and cute.

    maybe i’m deaf and you did mention it, but i really liked mario kart double dash’s co-op. the decision of letting you have two players in a kart is probably one of the biggest things that got me into gaming. as a kid (whenever my family played), my dad would be the character in the front driving, while i’d be the one in the back throwing items (the much easier job). it let me feel like i was a part of the game (and get used to how to hold and use a controller) without expecting me to be able to really play the game.



    This is also vaguely the plot of Video Game High School, although I don't know if I'm still the person who enjoyed that program


    @“esper”#p57034 What are the keys to a great co-op video game experience? (13:27)

    Oh uh, I mentioned this in the thread of a few episodes ago, but Conduct Together is both action puzzle goodness and the perfect party game. The big gimmick is that one side of the controller (face buttons and right bumper) control when the trains stop and start, while the left side (d-pad and left bumper) control the train track switches; since it's on switch, this works as one person holding each joy con.

    The asymmetrically of it isn't introduced at game level. When I've played this with friends, I usually control the tracks on my own, which isn't meant to be a brag, just that I've played through most of the game alone. Then usually we divide the train stops individually. We all collectively call out what needs to be stopped/started/switched, so it still feels collective, regardless of how often you're pressing a button.

    Admittedly, this isn't _exactly_ asymmetrical gameplay, since it's technically designed to allow just one person to do tracks while another does trains. Granted, the simplicity of this concept grants a really malleable division of the roles and attention, which is really beginner friendly. Also it's always fun watching cartoon trains explode


    Uhh almost forgot the music is Now-that's-what-I-call-local-car-dealership-commercial-music 11 which is awesome. Sorry, this is the perfect game, everyone else can go home

    Frogger 2: We Heard Y’all Think the Logs Don’t Get Enough Credit


    @“kory”#p57146 more like “Logger” am I right?

    “oops, all logs!”

    It's pretty wild how fogger kept trying to reinvent itself and turn into something else and the crossy road came along and said "it's regular fogger but in voxels and you can have different animals not just frogs" and made millions.

    FWIW most of the Frogger games from PS and beyond were still rooted in grid-based, hazard-dodging gameplay, and they continued to sell quite well for much longer than you might suspect—the first PS game sold 4 million copies or something silly, and there was a string of successful GBA/DS games, too. Like, they‘d change the visual style and experiment with actual characters or dialogue or whatever but it’s kinda surprising that they kept the games relatively traditional for so long, and that people stuck with it for as long as they did. (Tak Fujii‘s 3DS game, released both when Crossy Road was blowing up and the 3DS wasn’t, didn't fare nearly as well.)

    There is, or will be, or was, a Frogger game show airing on... Peacock? iunno.