Ep. 235 - Unchardita, with Vincent Diamante

@“JoJoestar”#p69275 I still like SOTN and subsequent igavanias more! I'm a blasphemer.

I couldn't tell you precisely when Koei started making “good” musou games (a ways into the PS360 gen, I want to say) or exactly how many they released prior to that point but I feel like it took at least a dozen tries, including expacks and so on.

I'd hesitate to describe either of the recent Bubsy games as good, for the simple fact that they're obviously degraded, low-budget rehashes of existing indie games (the Great Giana Sisters reboot and Bit.Trip Runner 3, respectively) that exist solely to capitalize off people who've been making the same one Bubsy joke for thirty years, and are so slapdash that they make you question whether the originals had any redeeming qualities to begin with (not that either of those games were amazing pre-Bubsy, mind).

If CV didn't get good until Symphony then we all have no choice to accept that Valis always sucked.

@“gsk”#p69282 Valis did always suck, that doesn‘t mean I don’t like it, heh heh. I actually wrote a mini-article about the how particular ways valis sucked informed my design sensibilities.

As shown recently in that long Bomberman video, it took a while and a handful of iterations for Bomberman (1983) to become the modern Bomberman (1990) we know and love.

To the question of series that took the most tries to make a “good” one:

If you consider From Software's successor to King's Field I think one could reasonably claim they made like 5 bad entries before they made Demon's Souls.

If you are most western gamers, you would say Yakuza 0, which is the 11th game they made in that franchise if you include the non-canonical period pieces and zombie stuff.

I‘d love to see a ’North Korean Adult Video‘ game where it’s like Papers, Please but you're making porn in an authoritarian regime.

Also, it's hard to talk about making porn without recommending the 1966 Japanese black comedy 'The Pornographers'.

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  • - IMHO Sonic Pocket Adventure is the secret best sonic game
  • - is Nintendo evil? I say in general, things these days are not more evil, merely we have a hugely growing awareness of how evil things always were ;) but yeah, NOA sucks
  • @“exodus”#p69279 SotN is the best, I adore Circle (first game I ever got for my GBA!) and Aria, Dawn and Ecclesia are all amazing, but you can‘t seriously make me believe you like Harmony and Portrait more than frickin’ Rondo, and if you do it‘s already too late, because I already chose to live in a reality where those things aren’t true :pray::relieved:

    @“exodus”#p69247 heck yeah


    Fashion Never Trends is a sick title

    I‘m thinking of it because I’m playing it again but the Darkest Dungeon 2 logo is hot

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    @“connierad”#p69303 yeah I kind of want to make it


    That big dirty Q from Quake 1 is a great representation of how brown and angular that game is. Even works in a nail from the nail gun.

    Regarding the best logos, I would like to point everyone (episode panel included!) towards our very own logo thread here on this forum.


    Now that we have a little distance, what features of the PS4/Xbox One era will feel retro someday?

    Something that immediately struck me when thinking about this is that there really isn't a defining look or style to this generation other than "looks a bit better than the previous one" or perhaps "more ambient detail on things like grass, gravel, and overall geometry". 20-30 years from now I suspect that _maybe_ the thing that will be "retro" will be a mashed up combo of the ps4/xbone generation with the ps5/series generation as (probably) being the final generation before raytracing is default everywhere. The "retro look" will be inaccurate global illumination, wonky screen-space reflections, and bad shadows. (Just like the "retro psx" look is wobbly triangles, not really accurate in any way to what was actually happening on the first playstation)

    i actually was the one who prompted jaffe to ask that question. the answer that satisfied me the most was “unreal engine 4,” as my first game for that generation was Arkham Knight

    @“Jaffe”#p69211 in this house, you gotta believe

    @“JoJoestar”#p69297 It is just so hard to go back to. That walk speed is true test of patience. My first real vania was Aria when I was like 12 or 13 from an extended play recommendation. Even then I avoided the SNES ones after trying Super and it feeling bad to move. I really wish I got to spend more time with Portrait to decide if I truly hated it or not. I kind of ran through it and Ecclesia while I remember the latter well enough.

    The area structure for Portrait fell flat for me quick- I remember not liking the characters much either. The multiplayer was extra boring too from what I remember.

    I actually think the Tales series (mechanically) is a mess until Arise. The Tales combat systems are often strangely maimed until 1/3 or 1/2 of the game. For instance, In Vesperia, you cannot cancel into special moves from your regular combos. Unless stunned or launched for juggle, you have no guaranteed way of landing SP moves on enemies. I feel that people naturally make this connection to the intention of the design because "Keep hit,Combo counter go up".

    Why is this something that is unlocked pass the 10 hr mark? You do two bosses before you can special cancel.

    You have to unlock swapping between characters in some of these games. The cameras are often rough in battle and jesus some of the lock ons have the worst default button mapping. You aren't really taught effective techniques. I think they thought the gating of basic mechanics the player is already expected to have, behind story checks, is always the way to go. Even when a boss exploits the same mechanic you won't have access to for hr in a fight.


    @“LoBFCanti”#p69325 That walk speed is true test of patience.

    This is understandable. The rigid jumping is something that also takes time to adjust to, but as someone who played Rondo actually after all the Igavanias I can't say I can't relate a lot, I loved the game anyway and was having fun from the get go. Your mileage may vary of course!

    Shocked, simply megashocked along with others in regards to @“exodus”#3 ’ opinion on early Castlevania games. Castlevania III, Rondo, and Bloodlines all precede SotN and I think are all pretty super in ascending order of awesomeness. I agree with Frank that the original Castlevania is fairly good for how early it was in the Famicom‘s life. It’s a more… let‘s say “stiff” game, but I don’t not enjoy it.

    I would ship Shun Di and Pepsiman from the extended Fighters Megamix universe for a great mismatched couple sure to have many wacky shenanigans.

    In regards to #3, in some rare cases, I've saved or worked myself into a corner on a game. With not enough resources to finish the game and a random Point of No Return, I'd have to make my mind up if replaying the game from scratch or a much earlier save point was worthwhile.

    In this house we do the math.

    The best way to piss off a fanboy with #7 is to find a game series with a fantastic atypical spinoff game that you find more enjoyable than the standard fare. For best results, choose a Pokemon game.

    The immersion question really stuck in my brain. I think I kinda agree with Brandon, that the location is really important to the immersive factor. You need to have the want to be there and experience it, but I really think of a game being immersive when the world feels actualized.

    I forget I‘m playing a game when whatever setting I’m playing in feels like it has more to it than the developers are telling me. This means enemies feel like inhabitants and not just obstacles for the player, areas feel like they have a purpose other than an being an arena, and the world existed before the player got there and after they've left.

    For example, Frank brings up the "space mall" in _Mass Effect_ being the highlight of that series, and I see this as a great example of immersion in video games. The space stations in that series often feel *real* in a similar way that towns in _Dragon Quest 11_ do: NPC's feel like more than just polygons to fill space and locations serve a purpose for those NPCs.
    Of course, you don't need a town to be immersive, games like *Shadow of the Colossus*, *Nier*, and a bunch of them Fromsoft games achieve this with ruins and signs of past life.