Ep. 257 - Building the Sandwhich While You're Eating It, with Chris Plante

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### Ep. 257 - Building the Sandwich While You’re Eating It, with Chris Plante

EIC of [Polygon](https://polygon.com) and co-host of [The Besties](https://the-besties.simplecast.com/) [Chris Plante](https://twitter.com/plante) fills in for Frank on topics like the Cyberpunk anime, Anthem, and a Republican poet’s paradise. Hosted by Alex Jaffe, with Tim Rogers, Brandon Sheffield, and Chris Plante. Edited by Esper Quinn, original music by Kurt Feldman.

**Questions this week:**

  • 1. How can game companies draw attention back to their titles after a botched release? (07:07)
  • 2. How do you make collecting treasure in a game feel significant? (14:14)
  • 3. What would you put in The Orange Box 2? (20:12)
  • 4. How would you quantify an experience point? (26:07)
  • 5. Design a game based on a White House press conference. (32:59)
  • 6. From PAX 2022: An interview with Starbucks Workers United organizer (37:59)
  • 7. MoxBagel re-asks: What’s the ideal video game to play over dinner? (41:11)
  • 8. Has a plot hole in a game’s story ever ruined the game for you? (48:37)
  • 9. What is the Avengers: Endgame of video games? (58:14)

    • **LIGHTNING ROUND**: Name Design – Panic! At The Disco songs (01:05:38)

    Recommendations and Outro (01:18:57)

    **A SMALL SELECTION OF THINGS REFERENCED:**

  • - [Disney's Darkwing Duck](https://www.mobygames.com/game/turbo-grafx/disneys-darkwing-duck)
  • - [The Besties](https://the-besties.simplecast.com/)
  • - [General Chaos](https://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/general-chaos)
  • - [Mortal Kombat](https://www.mobygames.com/game/mortal-kombat)
  • - [GoldenEye 007](https://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/goldeneye-007)
  • - [Super Smash Brothers series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/super-smash-brothers-series)
  • - [Cyberpunk 2077](https://www.mobygames.com/game/cyberpunk-2077)
  • - [Cyberpunk: Edgerunners](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12590266/)
  • - [Starfield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfield_(video_game))
  • - [Anthem](https://www.mobygames.com/game/anthem)
  • - [Assassin's Creed series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/assassins-creed-series)
  • - [Silent Hill 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/ps2/silent-hill-2)
  • - [Yakuza / Ryū ga Gotoku series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/yakuza-ry-ga-gotoku-series)
  • - [Tomb Raider series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/tomb-raider-series)
  • - [Deus Ex series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/deus-ex-series)
  • - [Marvel Avengers](https://www.mobygames.com/game/marvel-avengers)
  • - [Gex series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/gex-series)
  • - [Portal series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/portal-series)
  • - [Half-Life: Alyx](https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/half-life-alyx)
  • - [Quantum Conundrum](https://www.mobygames.com/game/quantum-conundrum)
  • - [Counter-Strike series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/counter-strike-series)
  • - [Team Fortress series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/team-fortress-series)
  • - [Back 4 Blood](https://www.mobygames.com/game/back-4-blood)
  • - [Crusader Kings series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/crusader-kings-series)
  • - [Perfect Tides](https://www.mobygames.com/game/perfect-tides)
  • - [Hollow Knight](https://www.mobygames.com/game/hollow-knight)
  • - [Baldur's Gate series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/baldurs-gate-series)
  • - [Legend of Zelda series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/legend-of-zelda-series)
  • - [Super Hydlide](https://www.mobygames.com/game/super-hydlide)
  • - [Demonschool (now wishlistable on Steam)](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1900250/Demonschool/)
  • - [Paper Mario series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/paper-mario-series)
  • - [Samba De Amigo](https://www.mobygames.com/game/samba-de-amigo)
  • - [Elite Beat Agents](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nintendo-ds/elite-beat-agents)
  • - [Xanadu (1980)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081777/)
  • - [Space Channel 5](https://www.mobygames.com/game/space-channel-5)
  • - [Papers, Please](https://www.mobygames.com/game/papers-please)
  • - [Gears 5](https://www.mobygames.com/game/gears-5)
  • - [Starbucks Workers United](https://sbworkersunited.org/)
  • - [Sign the No Contract No Coffee Pledge](https://crm.broadstripes.com/ctf/SJID0H)
  • - [The Last of Us series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/last-of-us-series)
  • - [Genshin Impact](https://www.mobygames.com/game/genshin-impact)
  • - [Deadly Premonition](https://www.mobygames.com/game/deadly-premonition)
  • - [NieR: Automata](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/nier-automata)
  • - [Kentucky Route Zero](https://www.mobygames.com/game/kentucky-route-zero)
  • - [Persona series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/persona-series)
  • - [Call of Duty series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/call-of-duty-series)
  • - [Spec Ops: The Line](https://www.mobygames.com/game/spec-ops-the-line)
  • - [BioShock series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/bioshock-series)
  • - [Dead & Buried (1981)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082242/)
  • - [One Piece](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388629/)
  • - [Halo series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/halo-series)
  • - [Avengers: Endgame (2019)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154796/)
  • - [Fortnite series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/fortnite-series)
  • - [Katamari Damacy](https://www.mobygames.com/game/katamari-damacy)
  • - [Hook](https://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-cd/hook)
  • - [John Wick (2014)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2911666/)
  • - [John Wick Hex](https://www.mobygames.com/game/john-wick-hex)
  • - [EarthBound](https://www.mobygames.com/game/earthbound)

    • **Recommendations:**
    **Jaffe**: Watch [One Piece](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388629/)
    **Brandon:** hold the up and down buttons to control those barrels in the Carnival Zone in Sonic 3, don’t watch Austin Powers, don’t watch any of the Bill & Ted movies, [Mom and Dad Save the World (1992)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104905/)
    **Tim**: Check out [Star Trek: Discovery](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/) if you want to see David Cronenberg be weird and Michelle Yeoh be weird
    **Chris**: Subscribe to [Shudder](https://www.shudder.com/) or [The Criterion Channel](https://www.criterionchannel.com/)

    Support on [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit)

    Subscribe: [RSS](https://insertcredit.com/show/rss), [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/insert-credit-show/id1509363651), [Google Podcasts](https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9pbnNlcnRjcmVkaXQuY29tL3Nob3cvcnNzLw), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/6CwWZE5p7vazIV1jrV9hln), and more!

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    {“sticky”:true}

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    I do feel bad about how little Chris got to talk :o

    It was good when he did! But we didn't really let him get in there too much, dang it

    4

    ah whoop i forgot a big important thing we wanted to include in the middle of this episode!!

    during PAX 2022 Brandon had a really cool little interview with a Starbucks United organizer as they were protesting in Seattle. I'm updating the episode file presently to include that interview! you can find out more and sign the No Contract No Coffee pledge [here](https://sbworkersunited.org/)!!

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    Ha ha that dang thing is never gonna get in there!!

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    @“exodus”#p88824 finally it is now!! (for anyone who caught the original file in their podcast app, you can hear just this segment by jumping to 37:59 in the audio player above)

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    @“esper”#p88823 Big “bonus episode in an episode” energy here.

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    @“esper”#p88815 Design a game based on a White House press conference. (32:59)

    mod Jim Acosta into Thrill Kill

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    I think the Avengers End Game of video games is Halo 3.

    It is marketed as a Big Conclusion to a Big Story but you know that there's going to be a bunch of sequels after it where the threat won't be as good (I'm talking 4 onwards, the gaiden games of ODST and Reach were great). It had a huge event marketing campaign and there was branded Mountain Dew.

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    I think the Avengers End Game of videogames, certainly in terms of the length of its saga, the sheer number of heroes, locations, plot threads and everything else that will need the brakes putting on will be the eventual release of Nihon Falcom‘s The Legend of Heroes: Trails… series finale. They’re on what, 12 games now and just over halfway through the story that they want to tell after 18 years? I‘ll be lucky to still be alive once it’s done.

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    To get saved by anime.

    First, you gotta find a **real good** animation studio. Or maybe someone like **Shūkō Murase**. This dude not only directed some cool old cyberpunk stuff but ALSO did the character designs for Final Fantasy IX and directed Witch Hunter Robin. Both properties that enticed folks back in the day and one has a gargantuan fan base and the other strikes obscene nostalgia for finding new anime while watching Adult Swim in the early 2000's.

    Next up, once you have your team assembled you gotta tell them instead of making like a 26 episode show, or 13 episode show, you're instead making 10 episodes, cause Netflix is cheap or something. This is very important, because it will cut out a good portion of the show **leaving your audience wanting for more**

    After that, this step is very important too. Before you initially start the project you must communicate with the team that later **when you ask them not to do something, that they can ignore you and instead do it.** That way when you tell them that Rebecca isn't cyberpunk, they can ignore you and instead create the most true to life depiction of a cyberpunk person who is now fan favorite, except for whatever property it is you're working on. This is especially important because since your game failed, you probably messed up somewhere so you need to trust the animators to fix it.

    Fourth, this part is important too but pretty easy. **Announce the anime right after the game has already launched.** This way while they spend a couple years creating the show, you can spend that time fixing your shitty game. The goal is not to make a good game, but to get rid of as many reasons that a 13 year old might accuse it of being bad. This means bugs, bugs, and more bugs, unless we're talking a Starship Trooper game. Then add some bugs!

    Fifth, **add some things from the anime into your game in an update!** This way, when people play the game, at least they have that to look for if all else fails. when they come to your game after the important second step leaving them **wanting for more** they will probably come to your game to find the sandevistan-like upgrade they so desperately need to better understand and play with.

    Sixth, announce a sequel to your game. **Hopefully** use the anime as inspiration and fundamentally change your game's premise to be more like the anime. Then it might be more interesting to play.

    Seventh, **reduce the number of programming tools.** When you first jacked into the Nvidia and were able to replicate flawless hairworks using their proprietary technology you might have found yourself to be special. But really, you're just a talented programmer. You cannot keep jacking new tools into your system without repercussions. you should know this now.

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    Tim saying it seems like every lightning round game is « one of the old favourites ». That’s cause Jaffe only plays the hits, baby!!

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    Why is Jaffe under a blanket?

    I understand it's for sound muffling but surely there's a better option. Additionally, I don't think many would mind if he echoed a bit (like at the end).

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    I was really into the movie talk and then Jaffe busted out of his blanket and I lost it! Thanks for lasting as long as you did under there. Also that bit about the audio tapes was too funny.

    Besties is good, thanks for joining Chris!

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    Regarding John Carpenter, I guess my recommendation would depend on how simple the person wanted to go, plot wise.

    I'd want to go the double feature route, and maybe pair Halloween with Christine and pair The Thing with They Live.

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    I keep forgetting to utilize my Criterion Channel subscription, so this finally made me jump back in with Prince of Darkness. Never actually watched this one, but I like how the whole setup feels like a PC88/98 adventure game. Even the opening credits sequence is doing one of my favorite things, scenes cutting in between credits.

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    the real treasure is the trash we found along the way

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    Mavis Biano Teaches Piano

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    The only plot hole I can think of that’s ruined a game for me is Heavy Rain. You can’t really do a whodunit mystery and then cheat the player with plot holes TWICE!

    >!The main character’s mysterious black outs are never explained and the killer commits a murder while you’re playing him(during a brief moment while he’s off screen). This is also a game where you can hear characters’ thoughts and when controlling the killer he never thinks about being the killer. !<

    It’s so dumb, and the worst part is David Cage’s explanations post release. He’s like, yeah it was going to be explained in some super natural cutscenes we ended up cutting when we decided to not do anything super natural. “But it’s ok because Alfred Hitchcock said you’re allowed one Macguffin”. What?! That’s not what a macguffin is!

    This has irrationally pissed me off for years lol

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    lol yeah it‘s so stupid it almost has to be intentional. It’s amazing