Ep. 258 - Tapey Toppies

### Ep. 258 - Tapey Toppies

The panel reunites in total to cover the death of the Stadia, if it’s ever okay make a 30 FPS game, and Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Hosted by Alex Jaffe, with Frank Cifaldi, Tim Rogers, and Brandon Sheffield. Edited by Esper Quinn, original music by Kurt Feldman.

**Questions this week:**

  • 1. Find any long lost NES games lately, Frank? (06:18)
  • 2. What do we have to say about the passing of the Stadia? (13:15)
  • 3. Which video game franchise took the greatest number of releases to start getting interesting? (19:01)
  • 4. When can a current game justify a 30 FPS frame rate? (25:03)
  • 5. Jaffe Guesses the Golden Age of Konami – Round 5 (36:21)
  • 6. Spencer’s Gifts asks: What is the best non-interactive work of video game media? (41:54)
  • 7. Is there a video game you think would have been more successful if it was released later? (47:43)
  • 8. What is the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of video games? (52:16)
  • **LIGHTNING ROUND:** GameFAQ&As - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (59:18)

    Recommendations and Outro (01:09:28)


  • - [Math Blaster!](https://www.mobygames.com/game/math-blaster)
  • - [Defender](https://www.mobygames.com/game/defender)
  • - [Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back](https://www.mobygames.com/game/star-wars-the-empire-strikes-back_)
  • - [Ultra Vortek](https://www.mobygames.com/game/jaguar/ultra-vortek)
  • - [Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy](https://www.mobygames.com/game/jaguar/trevor-mcfur-in-the-crescent-galaxy)
  • - [Cybermorph](https://www.mobygames.com/game/jaguar/cybermorph)
  • - [Highlander](https://www.mobygames.com/game/highlander)
  • - [Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time](https://www.mobygames.com/game/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-turtles-in-time)
  • - [Hover Strike](https://www.mobygames.com/game/jaguar/hover-strike)
  • - [The Simpsons](https://www.mobygames.com/game/simpsons)
  • - [X-Men](https://www.mobygames.com/game/x-men___)
  • - [Elevator Action variants](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/elevator-action-variants)
  • - [Super Glove Ball](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/super-glove-ball)
  • - [Battletoads series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/battletoads-series)
  • - [SimCity](https://www.mobygames.com/game/simcity)
  • - [Google is shutting down Stadia](https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/29/23378713/google-stadia-shutting-down-game-streaming-january-2023)
  • - [Gunsport](https://www.mobygames.com/game/stadia/gunsport)
  • - [Wishlist Hyper Gunsport on Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1663250/Hyper_Gunsport/)
  • - [E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial](https://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-2600/et-the-extra-terrestrial_)
  • - [Super Mario series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/super-mario-series)
  • - [Yakuza / Ryū ga Gotoku series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/yakuza-ry-ga-gotoku-series)
  • - [NBA 2K12](https://www.mobygames.com/game/nba-2k12)
  • - [Red Dead Redemption series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/red-dead-redemption-series)
  • - [Street Fighter series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/street-fighter-series)
  • - [Ys series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/ys-series)
  • - [Kirby games](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/kirby-games)
  • - [Donkey Kong games](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/donkey-kong-games)
  • - [Bionic Commando series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/bionic-commando-series)
  • - [Pilotwings](https://www.mobygames.com/game/pilotwings)
  • - [Gotham Knights](https://www.mobygames.com/game/gotham-knights)
  • - [Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart](https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-5/ratchet-clank-rift-apart)
  • - [Marvel Spider-Man: Miles Morales](https://www.mobygames.com/game/marvel-spider-man-miles-morales)
  • - [Wishlist Demonschool on Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1900250/Demonschool/)
  • - [The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild](https://www.mobygames.com/game/legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild)
  • - [Dark Souls series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/dark-souls-series)
  • - [Assassin's Creed series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/assassins-creed-series)
  • - [Demon's Souls](https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-5/demons-souls_)
  • - [Elden Ring](https://www.mobygames.com/game/elden-ring)
  • - [Mass Destruction](https://www.mobygames.com/game/mass-destruction)
  • - [Madden series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/madden-series)
  • - [Castlevania: Symphony of the Night](https://www.mobygames.com/game/castlevania-symphony-of-the-night)
  • - [Metal Gear Solid](https://www.mobygames.com/game/metal-gear-solid__)
  • - [Suikoden II](https://www.mobygames.com/game/suikoden-ii)
  • - [Tokimeki Memorial 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/tokimeki-memorial-2)
  • - [Dance Dance Revolution / Dancing Stage series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/dance-dance-revolution-dancing-stage-series)
  • - [beatmania games](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/beatmania-games)
  • - [pop'n music](https://www.mobygames.com/game/popn-music)
  • - [Silent Hill series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/silent-hill-series)
  • - [Silent Hill 2: Enhanced Edition](https://enhanced.townofsilenthill.com/SH2/)
  • - [Super Mario Bros. (1993)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108255)
  • - [Ultima](https://www.mobygames.com/game/ultima)
  • - [GameCenter CX](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0969664)
  • - [Taito X-55](http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/60631/Taito-X-55/)
  • - [NieR series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/nier-series)
  • - [Dragon Quest series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/dragon-warrior-dragon-quest-series)
  • - [Philosoma](https://www.mobygames.com/game/philosoma)
  • - [Halo series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/halo-series)
  • - [The Witcher series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/witcher-series)
  • - [Dante's Inferno](https://www.mobygames.com/game/dantes-inferno_)
  • - [DOOM series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/doom-series)
  • - [Black Tiger](https://www.mobygames.com/game/black-tiger)
  • - [EarthBound](https://www.mobygames.com/game/earthbound)
  • - [American Psycho (2000)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144084/)
  • - [Undertale](https://www.mobygames.com/game/undertale)
  • - [Linda³](https://www.mobygames.com/game/turbografx-cd/linda-)
  • - [Star Fox 2](https://www.mobygames.com/game/switch/star-fox-2)
  • - [FX Fighter series](https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/fx-fighter-series)
  • - [Comanche: Over the Edge](https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/comanche-over-the-edge)
  • - [Silhouette Mirage](https://www.mobygames.com/game/silhouette-mirage)
  • - [Aqua Teen Hunger Force](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0297494/)
  • - [Xavier: Renegade Angel](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132124/)
  • - [2007 Boston Mooninite panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_Mooninite_panic)
  • - ['Turok' maker plays the name game](https://www.cnet.com/culture/turok-maker-plays-the-name-game/)
  • - [Controversial Shadow Man: 2econd Coming advertising campaign](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/controversial-shadow-man-2econd-coming-advertising-campaign/1100-2855940/)
  • - [Night in the Woods](https://www.mobygames.com/game/night-in-the-woods)
  • - [Goat Simulator](https://www.mobygames.com/game/goat-simulator)
  • - [Alien Hominid](https://www.mobygames.com/game/browser/alien-hominid__)
  • - [Invader ZIM](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235923/)
  • - [SpongeBob SquarePants](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206512/)
  • - [Beavis and Butt-Head](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105950/)
  • **Recommendations:**
    **Brandon:** [Reservation Dogs](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13623580/), play [Control](https://www.mobygames.com/game/control) in German
    **Tim**: [Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14921986/), put a “Skip Intro” on Star Trek: The Next Generation if you’re someone who has the ability to make that happen inside Paramount+
    **Frank**: Check out the weird rough draft of the HD restoration that introduces each episode of The Next Generation on Pluto TV’s Star Trek channel

    Support on [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit)

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    @“esper”#p89643 Which video game franchise took the greatest number of releases to start getting interesting? (19:01)

    I think I said musou games last time but I couldn't pinpoint precisely when they stopped being complete trash and I can't do it now, either.

    I'd also suggest Irem's PachiPara games, which didn't start adding silly RPG-esque modes until eight games in, and didn't turn into couch-cushion Steambot Chronicles until game #12, but if the target audience of pachinko players looking for digital simulations of real cabinets was satisfied with the first seven games, can they really be considered bad?


    @“esper”#p89643 Is there a video game you think would have been more successful if it was released later? (47:43)

    Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, and I fully expect Capcom to run it back in the near future.

    Actually, a lot of those same devs re-applied a lot of Dragon Quarter's ideas via Dead Rising some four years later and it did fine (and was subsequently watered down into nothingness for reasons nobody seems to understand).


    @“gsk”#p89652 can they really be considered bad?

    Well, note that the requirement was not for the series to become _good_ but _interesting_, so from that perspective, I would agree Pachipara 12 fits the bill quite well.

    I was coming here to suggest FIFA17, the twenty-something-est episode in the series, trying yo get away from a straight soccer simulation by adding a super weird story mode starring [Alex Hunter.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hunter_(character)) Wasn’t good by any means, but an interesting idea.

    Behind the scenes, this new mode was also tied to an extremely controversial top-down decided and politically motivated move to the Frostbite engine, which not only penalized FIFA for a few years but also had huge implications later down the road for EA’s development roadmap (incl. being partly responsible for the mishaps of Anthem).

    So FIFA17 is way more _interesting_ than the average FIFA game.


    @“esper”#p89643 Spencer’s Gifts asks: What is the best non-interactive work of video game media? (41:54)

    [Space Invaders vandalism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invader_(artist))


    @“esper”#p89643 Is there a video game you think would have been more successful if it was released later? (47:43)

    This is where Brandon should have snuck in that Taito X-55 reference.


    @“chazumaru”#p89653 Well, note that the requirement was not for the series to become good but interesting, so from that perspective, I would agree Pachipara 12 fits the bill quite well.

    True enough, I guess I'd interpret "uninteresting" as "bad" for the sake of the conversation, but even so, I can't state with any sort of conviction that the target audience didn't find the prior games interesting, at least not to the same extent that I'm sure musou fans can't even pretend the earlier games have maintained any sort of interestingness... but of course, I'm as capable of evaluating those games as the average person would be of a pachinko simulator, so whatever.

    NFL 2k5 is another good example of a sports franchise that got interesting: it retailed for 19.99 to undercut madden, and was so successful ( + a superior game) that EA locked down NFL license exclusivity and essentially destroyed 2K football



    What is the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of video games? (52:16)

    For some reason, immediately thought of Panic!/Switch for the Mega CD. Not quite spot on, though.


    @“esper”#p89643 What is the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of video games?

    i'm not very familiar with ATHF, but when someone described its memeyness i thought of _Guacamelee_. that first guacamelee was pretty good and just happened to have a lot of "can haz cheezburger" stuff in the background.

    To reiterate: any Konami Golden Age that doesn‘t include 1991 and therefore Konami’s 3 best games (Detana!! Twinbee, Xexex, and Sunset Riders) is, at best, a Konami Silver Age.

    Something I've been pondering for the last few episodes : do the amount of post-revival episodes outnumber the pre-pandemic ones at this point? I noticed that episode 109 was actually two, so that threw my numeracy off, but I think this week could be the one that tipped it over.

    Also, looking forward to this year's SpecDracular - coming out on Halloween itself!

    Earthbound on PlayStation

    [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/8oJ0t5J.jpeg]

    Another Rockin episode

    The video game equivalent to Aqua Teen Hunger Force is _WORK TIME FUN_ aka _Baito Hell 2000_ aka _Groove Jigoku V_ ☑️

    Thanks Jaffe for only playing the hits
    Thank you esper for expertly fading the lightning round music that is so funny

    It is such a cool privilege to be able to “reply” to a podcast. Normally you’re just shouting into the void of your mind.

    What is the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of video games?

    _Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy_ immediately came to mind. It's nonsensical, has a rough but unique style, and there's a feeling of dread and some interesting wrinkles and depth there.

    Just going from less of a "lol so random" standpoint and purely the tone of Adult Swim and those range of shows were going for, especially since ATHF was kind of a blueprint for the next step of that programming beyond the Space Ghost C2C era.

    In that same line of things, _Stephen's Sausage Roll_ kinda makes me think of this, too. I'd say the question would have probably been better if it were "What's the Adult Swim programming of games?" but that might just lead to Devolver, which is only 1/3 true, but not completely accurate, as I feel like Adult Swim tried something rough and cool, while Devolver is more playing it safe but with a coat of paint that gives it an Edge or Prestige.


    @“esper”#p89643 Which video game franchise took the greatest number of releases to start getting interesting?

    The answer here has got to be Monster World IV, which is the sixth game in the series. The other games in the series are alright but Monster World IV was the first one with some real pathos.


    Spencer’s Gifts asks: What is the best non-interactive work of video game media? (41:54)

    i asked this after thinking about how Pokemon to most people is probably anime first video game second.
    That anime has over one thousand episodes. That's more than the Simpsons, Grey's Anatomy, or Law and Order.
    it also sort of retconned Pokemon cries. in the video games they make noises but in the anime they say their name. That ended up being put back into some of the games. Namely Pikachu has been saying Pikachu in any game that has the space for audio files. Pokemon Snap and Smash Bros go with their anime voices.

    Now the problem with Pokemon as the answer to this question is Pokemon was built as a multimedia franchise. So maybe that disqualifies it.

    @“pizzascrub”#p89697 ah, didn‘t think about it that way! good one. also I keep wanting it to be "spencer’s gifs"

    people like those Myst novels a lot iirc

    Found myself bristling at Night in the Woods being described as “Portland-looking” or whatever short hand Tim used. I think because that game and Scott Benson‘s whole deal about the kind of people who DON’T want to give up and leave the Midwest/Appalachia/The South and move to The Coasts. It's kind of an opposite Artistic Type from those who move to Portland, to me.

    ACTUALLY, just thinking about it as I'm writing, that IS something in common with ATHF and a lot of early Adult Swim stuff in general. It was all made by Williams Street in Atlanta, by people predominantly from the South, who hadn't worked in Hollywood, who wanted to make weird comedy stuff and just happened to have access to Ted Turner's cash/archival footage/cable channels.

    I don't think Night in the Woods is the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of video games by any stretch but I think there's more there than I thought at first.


    @“cleobirdwell”#p89696 The answer here has got to be Monster World IV, which is the sixth game in the series. The other games in the series are alright but Monster World IV was the first one with some real pathos.

    Wait I am confused, what is more interesting about Monster World IV? The evolution of the relationship with Pepelogoo?

    I would have argued the exact opposite: it’s the first game in the series to be designed more as a shallower character action game pushing for impressive graphics and a cute heroine meant to become popular outside of the game, rather than something meant to be smart or challenging and then dressed up with matching visual / design choices that will fit the grammar of the game design. Not that I find the commercial turn of Monster World IV _uninteresting_, mind you.

    Isn’t Monster World II (1989)’s Metroid-like structure way more ambitious relative to its release year? The focus on upgrading your gear and unlocking animal metamorphosis is actually closer to Symphony of the Night than Super Metroid.

    @“coreywilliams”#p89702 I did a little defending of night in the woods but I knew it was a lost cause because I don‘t think tim has actually played the game. definitely not the twee experience he thinks it is. And it’s a good point about it more being about what if you reclaimed your space versus leaving it to rot, which is certainly different from the vibe he was assuming.


    || Yeah, I found the relationship with Pepelogoo to be shockingly effective and very memorable from a gameplay perspective. He is such an integral part of the movement options being both the double jump and a hover that when he "dies" between levels I think I legitimately gasped. It makes the last stretch of the game really grueling being objectively downgraded. Like his mechanical importance made me both care about him more and also take for granted his safety in the narrative. He is also, just cute.||

    I found the other games to be aesthetically charming but the games themselves to be kind of forgettable. Like the animal forms in Dragon Trap are cool and qualify as interesting but I personally can't remember anything else from that game. It is a cool game though. But dang I randomly think about MW:IV a lot.

    Just my opinion though. I played all the games all at once way after they all came out so the context of them is different for me.