Ep. 307J - Podcast Swap Situation, with 8-4 Games

### Ep. 307J - Podcast Swap Situation, with 8-4 Play

[8-4 Play](https://8-4.jp/podcasts/) (Tina Carter, Mark MacDonald and John Riccardi) serve as your panel with Brandon Sheffield as host, covering a barrage of questions about localization, the global nature of games, and Sans. Hosted by Brandon Sheffield, with Tina Carter, Mark MacDonald and John Riccardi. Edited by Esper Quinn, original music by Kurt Feldman.

**Questions this week:**

  • 1. How has Japanese corporate culture manifested itself in the history of game development? (03:08)
  • 2. What are Japanese arcades like right now? (08:28)
  • 3. Design an online multiplayer game where the mechanics are intended to incorporate international time zone differences. (14:04)
  • 4. Jaffe’s NieR Automata Dilemma: How is it that sometimes a video game sequel or follow-up can be technically better than the previous one in every way, but you don’t like it as much? (19:08)
  • 5. What’s your approach to game localization purity? (25:57)
  • 6. Which game studio has produced the most good games without releasing ANY bad ones? (32:03)
  • 7. What is the “But doctor, I *am* Pagliacci!” of video games? (37:12)
  • **LIGHTNING ROUND:** First Person Pronouns (39:44)

    Bonus Question: Defend your choice of the “I” pronoun you used for Sans in Undertale. (44:03)

    Recommendations and Outro (45:46)

    [Discuss this episode in the Insert Credit Forums](https://forums.insertcredit.com/)

    **A SMALL SELECTION OF THINGS REFERENCED:**

  • - [8-4 Play](https://8-4.jp/podcasts/)
  • - [Capcom Five](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capcom_Five)
  • - [UFO Catcher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claw_machine)
  • - [Dave & Buster's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_%26_Buster%27s)
  • - [Round One](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_One_Corporation)
  • - [Gunslinger Stratos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunslinger_Stratos)
  • - [Groove Coaster](https://www.mobygames.com/group/11395/groove-coaster-series/)
  • - [Kirby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_(character))
  • - [Mercari](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercari)
  • - [Yakuza / Ryū ga Gotoku series](https://www.mobygames.com/group/8208/yakuza-ryu-ga-gotoku-series/)
  • - [Ms. Pac-Man](https://www.mobygames.com/game/576/ms-pac-man/)
  • - [Pong](https://www.mobygames.com/game/64135/pong/)
  • - [NARC](https://www.mobygames.com/game/10327/narc/)
  • - [Space Invaders](https://www.mobygames.com/game/8806/space-invaders/)
  • - [Phantasy Star Online](https://www.mobygames.com/game/3573/phantasy-star-online/)
  • - [Swatch Internet Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time)
  • - [The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild](https://www.mobygames.com/game/84595/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/)
  • - [EVE Online](https://www.mobygames.com/game/10063/eve-online/)
  • - [Resident Evil 4](https://www.mobygames.com/game/16373/resident-evil-4/)
  • - [Unpacking](https://www.mobygames.com/game/174628/unpacking/)
  • - [NieR](https://www.mobygames.com/game/46486/nier/)
  • - [NieR: Automata](https://www.mobygames.com/game/84102/nier-automata/)
  • - [David Jaffe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jaffe)
  • - [Alex Jaffe](https://bsky.app/profile/alexjaffe.bsky.social)
  • - [Alex Jaffe](https://twitter.com/Blinkity)
  • - [Dragon's Dogma series](https://www.mobygames.com/group/13264/dragons-dogma-series/)
  • - [Perfect Dark](https://www.mobygames.com/game/4034/perfect-dark/)
  • - [GoldenEye 007](https://www.mobygames.com/game/3528/goldeneye-007/)
  • - [Saturday Night Live](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Live)
  • - [Limp Bizkit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limp_Bizkit)
  • - [Trouble Bobble, with Mathew Kumar and MoxBagel](https://insertcredit.com/show/305/)
  • - [Final Fantasy VIII](https://www.mobygames.com/game/1149/final-fantasy-viii/)
  • - [Densha de Go! series](https://www.mobygames.com/group/7995/densha-de-go-series/)
  • - [Final Fantasy IV](https://www.mobygames.com/game/5202/final-fantasy-iii/)
  • - [Kotatsu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu)
  • - [Undertale](https://www.mobygames.com/game/74938/undertale/)
  • - [Enhance Experience Inc.](https://www.mobygames.com/company/25897/enhance-experience-inc/)
  • - [Disco Elysium](https://www.mobygames.com/game/136046/disco-elysium/)
  • - [Supergiant Games, Inc.](https://www.mobygames.com/company/15126/supergiant-games-inc/)
  • - [Angry Birds](https://www.mobygames.com/game/46396/angry-birds/)
  • - [Valve Corporation](https://www.mobygames.com/company/126/valve-corporation/)
  • - [Vanillaware Ltd.](https://www.mobygames.com/company/9703/vanillaware-ltd/)
  • - [Treasure Co., Ltd.](https://www.mobygames.com/company/2108/treasure-co-ltd/)
  • - [Stretch Panic](https://www.mobygames.com/game/7903/stretch-panic/)
  • - [Mischief Makers](https://www.mobygames.com/game/8090/mischief-makers/)
  • - [cavia inc.](https://www.mobygames.com/company/5468/cavia-inc/)
  • - [Bullet Witch](https://www.mobygames.com/game/28268/bullet-witch/)
  • - [Earth Defense Force series](https://www.mobygames.com/group/8735/earth-defense-force-chikyu-boeigun-series/)
  • - [Sandlot](https://www.mobygames.com/company/9436/sandlot/)
  • - [“But doctor, I *am* Pagliacci”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sad_clown_paradox#Pagliacci_joke)
  • - [Bayonetta series](https://www.mobygames.com/group/11069/bayonetta-series/)
  • - [The Friends of Ringo Ishikawa](https://www.mobygames.com/game/109141/the-friends-of-ringo-ishikawa/)
  • - [Undertale 's Japanese Localization Is Causing A Fan Frenzy](https://kotaku.com/undertales-japanese-localization-is-causing-a-fan-frenz-1796085385)
  • - [Legends of Localization](https://legendsoflocalization.com/)
  • **Recommendations:**
    **Mark:** [Enhance Experience Inc.](https://www.mobygames.com/company/25897/enhance-experience-inc/)’s games
    **John**: Follow [@johntv](https://linktr.ee/johntv84), listen to [8-4 Play](https://8-4.jp/podcasts/), check out [Masahiro Sakurai’s Youtube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw)

    This week’s Insert Credit Show is brought to you by [patrons like you](https://www.patreon.com/insertcredit). Thank you.

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    {“sticky”:true}

    A crossover with my other favorite podcast? What a treat.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMZzQY7JTyc

    Brandon mentioning round 1 reminded me to check if the one in Temecula, CA has a groove coster or MaiMai machine (they do) cause I may be around there next month.

    Looking that up I found that they are opening one in National City (basically San Diego) and that's quite close to me and I'm extremely excited for that now

    The true crossover we need over there is Jaffe to whip the pacing and length and momentum of the 8-4 podcasts into shape.

    I like the 8-4 crew but hate their podcast format (sorry guys), so this is pretty neat.

    It was very fun listening to a bunch of ostensibly normal people try to tackle the Pagliacci of video games question.

    thanks for not bringing up the dirtbag in mixed company

    and good answer about Yeo the poor guy

    [URL=https://i.imgur.com/ogNBNvp.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ogNBNvp.png[/IMG][/URL]

    Brandon don't eat too much salmiakki, that stuff is made with ammonium chloride

    Excuse me it‘s called salmiak salt and it’s perfectly healthy and normal to eat. My favorite poisonous Swedish confections are the powders, particularly Hockey Powder and Dunderpulver. Hockey Powder is just a pretty strong licorice experience (there's also a sour one that is quite refreshing), but Dunderpulver tastes like no other substance on earth.

    >

    @“Mnemogenic”#p135162 Excuse me it’s called salmiak salt and it’s perfectly healthy and normal to eat.

    To this I only have one thing to say...

    ```/me pounds back some viili and kala mojakka```

    # _Heinäsirkka, heinäsirkka, mene täältä helveteen!!_

    Ok I am probably (if not deliberately, as a bit) exaggerating the level of toxicity of ammonium chloride, I mean, it's not like sodium chloride doesn't also have a level of toxicity that would look scary if you expressed it in relatively modest units of measurement. Wow, I'm right! A fatal dose of table salt is roughly 0.5-1g per kg of body weight. So, like, 10 tablespoons of salt taken could kill the average person!

    [size=8][i]His name is Luis

    @“◉◉maru”#p135132 Much discussion was had before and after the podcast about formats and efficiency and whatnot and I (accidentally) insulted the editor by talking about how much people talk over each other (he was like… I work so hard!!!) ha ha. Ultimately it's different strokes etc!

    Also I don‘t think I mentioned this in the show(?) but we recorded this from their office in Japan, using their equipment. Which is how I was able to be on the show while being away (I’m now back, but won't be on the next ep due to how we recorded stuff)

    I‘m no longer alone. There’s someone else in the world that has a thing for Bullet Witch.

    I thought it was nice that John came up with the good parts of New Games Journalism about 20 something years after the fact when discussing reviewers' inability to distinguish between “more stuff” and “better game”

    Adored listening to this episode, some real juice in here. Experience is an extremely cool developer, and I should watch more of those Sakurai videos, it‘s kind of a crazy resource that we’re not gonna believe we had if it‘s ever gone. I think Yeo is the perfect answer to that question; I don’t know their personal situation, but you just wanna shake them till they understand that their work is hitting home for a whole chunk of people in a very big way.

    On the translation thing, I'm not a translator, but am a writer and voice actor who works in localization a fair bit with the latter, and I'm also just a picky lil shit about games writing. I think one simple way to put it is that, using Japanese > English as an example, the translated line should hit the English audience the same way it hits the Japanese audience. I use this example from the ongoing Chainsaw Man localisation, which in many ways is very good, but has moments of inconsistency. At one point early on, a very intimidating devil (big demon) says something like "I hate you because you kill devils like me" to the protagonist. And as an English viewer, that line _teleported_ my ass out of the world of the show so quick.

    Maybe it's a very direct translation of a Japanese line in a show that usually sounds a lot more natural, maybe it's a manner of speaking or of storytelling that would hit Japanese ears very naturally. But to my American English-speaking, English content-absorbing ears, it immediately sounded dumb as fuck, like something a four-year-old with action figures would say. A "naturalization," to use Brandon's words, to English audiences would have been something way less direct, like a terrible insult or revenge-tinged threat that tells us the demon hates the protagonist (and maybe even tells us something about the demon) without stating its motivation directly. It takes thoughtful writing to make that hit right, not literalism.

    It definitely seems like we're trending in that more naturalized direction these days, and the weirdos who associate literal translations with some sort of creepily exoticising "purity" can just keep on being weird over there.

    @“◉◉maru”#p135132 I feel like they did start tightening up a while back… and it might be why I dropped off, come to think of it—they went from half-jokingly talking about how they needed to rein themselves in every episode to actually doing it, and one of my podcast bugbears is when the people involved record like there's a taxi waiting outside.