Yah, I was going to mention this. I think he was being polite and waiting his turn, which doesn’t really arrive on this show without inserting oneself. It is possible he was feeling too british to interrupt us!
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The worst gaming take that I usually see is that games before 1995-ish (or whenever the person was born) aren’t actually “fun” and they’re more like historical curiosities. Which mostly just reveals that they haven’t played very many old games.
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Games have actually gotten less fun as time goes on.
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I found it odd the guest kept talking over Frank.
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Hadn’t considered that, makes sense. No shade intended and I’m definitely not having an go at Simon - I wanted to hear him speak! It just came across like he was being cut off frequently for a whole lot of nothing. Your editing is so seamless @esper that I forget it’s not a natural conversation.
In conclusion: the Queen would have Jet Set Willy on Spectrum.
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quite possible he got cut off as well! I certainly wouldn’t put it past us collectively
i genuinely shouted (well, whisper-shouted) aloud “yes, yes!” when tim said “let’s talk about sokoban for 60 minutes”
please make this happen please i’ll do anything i’ll bankrupt myself even please
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Steve Neale described genre as a process of “repetition and difference” and I think that’s a better way to think about it than simply boxes we put things in. Genre theory and genre studies are sub-fields of writing studies and a lot has been written about it. Interesting stuff to read in my opinion!
Haven’t listened to the episode yet so apologies if anybody went on a big Steve Neale lecture.
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I’ve long felt that the term “puzzle game” really refers to two different, more or less completely unrelated, genres: one featuring, say, Tetris, Puyo Puyo, Bejeweled, 2048 and Mr Driller, and another featuring the likes of Portal, Braid, Sokoban, Baba is You and the Incredible Machine. The latter category is probably more aptly described by the term “puzzle game” since they’re literally games about solving a series of puzzles, but I can’t think of a good name for the former group.
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I was worried when I started up Vagrant Story a few weeks ago since people had (half-jokingly it would seem) called it a Sokoban game. But luckily it was just a nice flavor profile on top of everything else (like Valkyrie Profile’s crystal platforming). Play that game if you haven’t already, it feels Insert-credit (7/10) esque to its core.
Also I know this could be a whole podcast segment, but the question about genre ripoffs, etc. got me thinking about something I’d never really tried to put into words but had a gut-feeling/kneejerk reaction whenever people use it so frequently: roguelikes. Roguelites. Whatever you want to call them. It all feels a bit mangled nowadays - how big is the gray zone here? Nethack is super cool & interesting (even though I’ll never beat it), and feels like its own thing in comparison to what we’d call roguelikes in the modern era. I’m sure there’s some long screed/post/podcast episode about it, but I ain’t seen it myself yet.
P.S.S. about freedom in games: too much freedom is scary as heck, which is why I’ll never touch Dorf Fort. Props to anyone who can handle it.
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@footfoot Yeah, it’s difficult to label what that other wing would be. “Appear and clear” seems pretty catchy to me.
To go a bit further, this is how Sonic consists of 100 genres, using Sonic 1-3 and Sonic & Knuckles. Just spinballing here; most of these will seem either too niche or too broad to be as useful a genre as “platformer,” but at the very least, a cluster of games could be identified with that feature:
- Platformer
- Action game
- Path game (note: if we accept something as general as the “platform” as a genre definer, then Sonic rolling for long stretches along paths is certainly a genre of its own)
- Jump-and-spin game
- One-hit enemy game
- Boss with number of hits game
- Rapid movement from standstill (dash) game
- Score game
- Timed to die game
- Second chance thanks to collectible (ring) game
- Powerups in boxes game
- The bridge flexes when you go over it game
- You’re invulnerable for a short time game
- Special stage game
- Multiple ending based on in-game collectible game
- Pass a finish line to end the level game
- Push the button to end the level game
- Second player can play sidekick game
- Sometimes walls let you go through them game
- Idle animation game
- This game technically has gambling game
- Animal mascot game
- Springs game
- Separate running and rolling mechanics game
- Accessible level select game
- Accessible debug mode game
- Accessible sound effects game
- 2 player split screen mode game
- Side-scrolling game
- Vertical-scrolling game
- Checkpoint game
- Balls and walls that go “ding” and deflect you game
- Conveyor belt game
- Dodging light beams and projectiles game
- Extra lives game
- Continues game
- Water makes movement slow game
- You suffocate in water game
- You need air bubbles to breathe underwater game
- A character can fly game
- A character can climb walls game
- A character can glide game
- Mechanisms help carry a character up game
- Multiple same-themed levels are divided into sets game
- An attempt is made to show progress from one set to another game
- A snowboarding game
- A pulley system game
- Spikes make you go “ow” game
- Falling through the bottom of the level kills you game
- You glitched, your sprite changed color, and the 1990s internet made up an entire backstory for who you are game (the “Ashura” game)
- 16-bit game
- Genesis game
- Sega game
- Yuji Naka game
- (I could probably keep that going with other main staff, but that seems easy, so read number 55 as X-staff game)
- The grass has two lined colors of green game
- The land incorporates a checkerboard pattern game
- The land has continuous inclines and declines game
- The platforms sometimes move game
- Cannon shoots you out game
- The environment can squish you game
- Sometimes lava and other hurty objects chase you game
- You can turn into a super version of yourself game
- You go into spaaaaace game
- Enemy pops out of wall to surprise you game
- If you don’t jump, you sink in it (e.g. oil, quicksand) game
- Fans blow you in a direction game
- You’re flying on a plane and kind of control it, but you’re also standing on the plane and can jump or what not game
- Jump on the mushroom to go up a bit game
- Vines fold one way to form platform game
- A ground vine catches you and you can’t move game
- You have to periodically hit switches or something bad gets you game
- At least one of the levels is primarily a transition level with, maybe, one boss fight game
- Different characters have slightly different level or boss sets game
- The enemies are robot animals game
- Defeated enemies release surprise animals game
- Physical lock-on game
- Double jumping game
- Shields game
- You can push obstacles to make a new path game
- Speed shoes game
- At least one power-up is a power-down game
- At least one power-up attracts the in-game collectible to you game
- You can’t use this move, but an otherwise playable character uses this move against you when you fight them game
- All the playable characters are boys game
- The only voice acting is saying the name of the publisher game
- At least some players of the game experience the story through the lens of supporting media tie-ins (cartoon, comics, etc.) game
- The special stage is more difficult with multiple characters or players game
- An official tournament has been held using this game game
- Console game subsequently adapted to arcade game
- Console game subsequently adapted to handheld game
- Giant mech game
- Science fiction game
- Tropical game
- Spiky ball swings on chain game
- Credits include a medley of music from across the levels game
- Post-credits cutscene game
- Game that tells you “game over” when you lose
- Post-credits and credits scene, you go back to the title game
- Death sound is a type of “boing” game
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Worth mentioning that the actor portraying Segata Sanshiro is Hiroshi Fujioka, who is also Takeshi Hongo in the original Kamen Rider.
This also seems like the right place to mention that the original Kamen Rider run is free on Tubi.
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do you have anything you recommend? i didn’t pay attention to this part in school
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my submission for genre descriptor is “Traditional Sunday Puzzler”
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I winced
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I think you have to approach it from the same “no one could possibly read the New Yorker for the cartoons” angle that the podcast did, but a lot of gacha games also have their own regular gag comics, even running in the actual game interface and are usually incomprehensible in-jokes. No reason to read them if you’re not already playing the game.
https://prd-game-a1-granbluefantasy.akamaized.net/assets_en/img/sp/assets/comic/episode/episode_2415.jpg
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Dreamcast 2, Mario nor Masterchief nor Kratos are on this Dream Cast. We’ve got SONIC
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Sure! I’d recommend (in this order):
(If you want to go back to what is probably the true genesis of these ideas, you’ll want to start with Lloyd Bitzer’s “Rhetorical Situation” but you can probably skip that if you want)
Kerry Dirk’s “Navigating Genres” is a good starting point, in my opinion.
Carolyn Miller “Genre as Social Action”
Amy Devitt “Generalizing about Genre: New Conceptions of an Old Concept”
Stephen Neale “Questions of Genre”
I did some quick searching to make sure these are all available online, but if you have trouble finding something, I can probably get you a PDF.
After reading those, I would say that if you want more, start digging into the bibliographies of these four and read what sounds interesting.
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i just noticed this question doesn’t actually say the dreamcast 2 is a game console.
what might the dreamcast 2 be, other than a console?
a cult?
i’m just asking questions.
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It’s not a “you” problem brandon, tears of the kingdom makes me sick
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