Movies Talk

I watched Werckmeister Harmonies and a 2023 interview Criterion did with Tarr to coincide with their release. First of all it’s cool he acknowledges in it that “the brand people know as ‘Béla Tarr’ is really Ágnes Hranitzsky, László Krasznahorkai, Mihály Vig, and me”—most directors put in a similar position would say they owe it all to the team or whatever, but then not challenge any of the remarks of an interviewer saying your music placement or the writing in your films—filmmaking is collaborative!

Very oddly shot interview though, a good 70% of the time they cut to look at the interviewer as he wordlessly smiles and nods while Tarr is speaking.


I wrote this draft a few weeks ago and forgot to post it:

Inspired by saddleblasters’s post I looked at a couple scenes from Alien , which with a popular movie like that I’d normally just find it on Youtube, but uploads of particular scenes are weirdly hard to find in decent quality, so I put in the Blu-ray. I bought it for $4 at Best Buy years ago and didn’t ever watch it, and consequently this time discovered a heretofore-unknown-to-me special feature which lets you watch the movie with no sound except the original score—both the theatrical score as well as the original original score—and it’s a pretty cool thing. There is un-cool-ly an overlay onscreen at all times telling you the name of the musical cue that’s playing…

For direct comparison I then watched the space jockey scene from Prometheus (which also required consulting the Blu-ray because there are similarly few high-quality clips on Youtube—did Disney do a purge before releasing the new one, or what?) and while I was doing that I had on the commentary track with Scott. There is this funny bit at the end:

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A friend did an intensive with Bela Tarr a few years back, and there are so many interesting idiosyncrasies about him. My favorite being that his edits take like a week tops because of how he shoots (26 shots), so he barely does any post at all.

He also basically tells students to not tell stories in favor of focusing on actions, and made my buddy find the story to his film off of the act of making soup.

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Man, what a cool guy.

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so how’d you like Werckmeister and did you enjoy the Pathologic isms

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Certainly surprised at just how Pathologic-adjacent it turned out. Although because I was reading Light in August at the time, I found similarities there as well despite the vast difference in location, time, and social atmosphere. One central town as living organism; an “event” occurs (the arrival of the whale / Christmas murders Joanna Burden) which disrupts the status quo and drives everyone in the town to give up individual agency in order to carry out (violent) collective action (the hospital raid / the pursuit and murder of Christmas). I may be seeing what I want to see to an extent, but it’s to the credit of Werckmeister’s restraint and evocative lack of detail. The modern vs. premodern conundrum is compelling in WH as it is in Pathologic

Great camerawork of course. One of my favorite parts is when János walks through the town square like halfway through the movie and everyone else stands frozen looking at the truck in the center of the cleaing. To freakscene’s post, one shot that sticks in my mind has the main character heating up canned soup.

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Just watched the 1961 film Ring of Fire. It feels like a morning fever dream: two deputies encounter three delinquents delinquenting. But on the way into town, the girl delinquent (Bobbie) pulls a gun and they hold the deputies hostage. The first half of the film seems to be about this hostage situation, as the group hides in the woods and search party closes in. Then the second half turns into a disaster film about a fire. The final scene of the film shifts all of this into an inadvertent romance. I think the film is somewhat confused about what it wants to be.

So the first 50 or so minutes focuses on walking through the woods and building out the search party. Not much to say here, except that, over the course of these events, Bobbie tries to seduce the lead character deputy, Steve. In the movie logic of the 1960s, he is tempted but ultimately resists. This becomes relevant later.

Steve eventually gets the gun and the other deputy gets away, but the two dudes (Roy and Frank) are scheming, and they hatch a plan while climbing a steep hill: they’ll push Bobbie down so Steve is distracted saving her; meanwhile, they’ll snatch the gun. The plan goes off in what I can only describe as realistically awkward blocking: Roy pushes Bobbie, then runs alongside her. The deputy only seems to see Bobbie; Roy runs behind the deputy, grabs the gun, and runs back in the time that the deputy is struggling to put Bobbie’s legs on the hill. Then they try to make the deputy’s death look like an accident, but Roy has an accident instead, falling to his presumable death.

At this point, the film is over half over and there is no fire. Well, Smokey weeps: Frank, now with the gun, insists on smoking his cigarette, and he drops it in the woods. The camera closes in and we see the smoke grow from where it fell through the underbrush. The ring of fire has begun, and the entertaining kidnapping story begins to turn into a disaster film.

Eventually Bobbie, Frank, and Steve are ambushed by a large group of deputies and loggers. In a twist, Frank accuses Steve of statutory rape, a charge that Bobbie goes along with and the others take seriously. Then the group catches sight of the fire and head back into town to evacuate. In one of the stranger scenes, the sheriff, Steve, and another deputy then take Bobbie alone to a cabin to interrogate Bobbie about whether the statutory rape really happened. Bobbie suggesting that Steve “succumbed” to her “advances” infuriates the other deputy, who seeks to hit Bobbie until restrained by Steve and the sheriff. This, in 1960s movie logic, shows Steve to be a good guy caught in a bad place.

By the time they get back to town, the evacuation is well underway, the north road out of town is closed, and soon the south wall is closed too. They are in a ring of fire. Steve, with Bobbie, commandeers an old train engine with a couple of passenger compartments, and they run it slowly through the center of town to pick up survivors. Maybe the strongest cinematography of the film is here, where real pictures of forest fire are put alongside apocalyptic cuts of people running across a burning town to get to the train. It reminds me of what Birds (1963) would do two years later, except this one is with fire, not birds. People load up and the train rides through the ring of fire.

Finally they get to a bridge, already on fire. They try to cross but the train is jammed. So they have to get off on foot and cross. Tension builds as Frank climbs down the bridge (to evade the deputies?) and Steve and Bobbie cross the train to the popping noises of trusses breaking. The main engine and the two passenger compartments successively fall into the river below. The practical effects are amazing - they actually did wreck a train for the shots. Frank probably dies in the collapse; Steve and Bobbie make it across with the townsfolk.

If the film had ended here, I would have been entertained. No, instead we have one more scene between Steve and Bobbie, where Bobbie cries about being all mixed up and Steve calls her special and promises that, like all the people whose town has just burned up, they too can start over. Then they kiss. Then the movie ends. Wait, what? The implication based on some sheriff dialogue earlier is that, with Frank dead, the statutory rape charge against Steve won’t stand. Yet people would still have memories, right? Isn’t him kissing her the start of the same thing? Was a meet-cute during a kidnapping with some weird underage stuff the point all along? Was she underage, or was that part of the lie too? It’s all mixed up.

Going back to some of the promo materials of the film, I can see how all that is being mixed together. How’s this for a tagline? “Caught … between a wall of leaping flame and a killer’s loaded gun … and his fate in the hands of the girl on his arms who could send him to prison for life!”

Extra: MGM Pressbook (Internet Archive)

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The Substance is extremely gross gory fun. lags a bit in the middle but the end is so bonkers that i forgive it. great to see practical fx so prominently.
there’s a thing i’ve noticed with a few of these mid-budget big-hype films lately. like Blink Twice. they’re shot suuuuper close up to faces which obviously means it’s watchable on a phone or tablet but also means you can kind of tell that they’re obfuscating backgrounds to hide reshoots or whatever. The Substance i feel could have done with one or two more locations for the sake of variety but i think that sense also comes from feeling that they could have cut a little from the middle to help the pacing.

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yeah i had a great time with this one too. could definitely have used tighter editing but i loved how totally outside of reality it was, and demi moore and margaret qualley were really really good. honestly i thought they could’ve gone even further with the body horror!

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Theater by my house is doing a few screenings of Nosferatu synced to Kid A and Amnesiac. Seemed pretty cool! Nosferatu is mostly fun if not a lesser German expressionist thing, and the music often did add to it.

That said… the guy that made the cut it is clearly trying to make some money off this, which, fair. But he introduced the film, with the added fact that he had someone come in and digitally add colored lights to the film. Which, to put it lightly, does not work for this at all. I don’t want to see the characters glow red in a dramatic moment.

They also recut all the text cards with this utterly horrid graphic design where a book page would take up the top third of the insert and the rest would just be an empty page. Not to rant but man, why couldn’t they have gotten out of their own way here.

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I mentioned in the What’s in the mail thread that I would let @exodus know my thoughts on Undefeatable.

Overall, I’d say that it’s “watchable”. The movie is far from Cynthia Rothrock’s best but if you go in knowing that a Godfrey Ho movie is only going to be as good as a Godfrey Ho movie then your expectations are pretty set. There’s some pretty terrible acting from a couple of main characters and a couple of nonsense scenes that don’t add anything and a couple of others that go nowhere.

The main action scenes are broadly speaking, pretty good but they take a long time to arrive. There’s one that has Cynthia and a gang leader fighting on top of oil barrels which is pretty neat and the penultimate one has some good prop action in it. The final action scene has some good stuff in it and ends in a way that made me unintentionally laugh through a particular physical floppiness at the end. If you’re not going to watch the entire thing then at least watch this scene.

“Yeah, seeyuh!”

Re: the gross stuff. The rape scene is uncomfortable but not graphic - skip 15:25 to 18:25 in the theatrical cut if you’re keeping track. There are one or two brief scenes where a woman is found dead in a trunk and another scene with a woman restrained in chains.

Would I watch it again? Yes but it wouldn’t be near the top of my list. Your mileage may vary but if anything, watch the above video and you can otherwise leave the rest.

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Portland Retro Gaming Expo report and @exodus callout post:

I hear that HDDVD is the cool format now!

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I know I can’t be the only one who saw Megalopolis, I knew it wasn’t going to be that great but man I’m still astounded by how bad everything was. Like goddam how did he spend so much money on that thing, he could’ve given it to someone with talent/who could write (or just made a movie version of It Can’t Happen Here)

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Megalopolis reminded me of a Neil Breen film with way better writing, directing, and acting. It’s got that same kind of narcissistic bent that Breen’s films have with the main character being a clear author surrogate railing vaguely against The Issues of Today and prevailing by just generally being brilliant. I kept hearing this was Coppola’s big statement about where society seems to be heading but he’s so out of touch and into himself that he can only conceive of such a story through the lens of a guy triumphing over the system to leave behind HIS LEGACY for the children of tomorrow. During the early scenes where Driver is talking about his futuristic building material being impervious to any deterioration and how his structures will stand forever I was convinced that was gonna blow up in his face somehow but no, Coppola just really is that naive. He basically made a film version of the inscription from Ozymandias

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I saw it too. Best I can say is that the dialogue and acting are funny to watch for about 10 minutes. It’s mostly unwatchable.

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I just got home from seeing the movie and I really enjoyed it. However, one of the other ten people in the theatre with us did say “That was the worst movie I’ve ever seen” as they walked out.

I appreciated the bombast in terms of visual style and the plot; it’s way over-the-top but in a way that felt theatrical. The montages were neat and the premise of the world was really brought to life visually. It felt like the kind of an idea someone had when they were quite young and just never got over. You can definitely feel that youthful naivete, but the way it was executed felt like the work of a more mature hand.

I enjoyed some of the littler moments, such as Ceasar visiting his mum, and when Julia and Ceasar would try to hang out with her parents. There were certainly scenes where characters didn’t feel like they were talking to each other at all, but just awkwardly reciting bizarre lines in the same room, but I kind of liked that. But for the most part, I thought all the main actors embodied their characters quite effectively. Especially liked Aubrey Plaza as Wow Platinum, and Adam Driver was great to watch in every scene.

Parts of the ending reminded me of Metal Gear Solid 2… I think everyone who’s seen it will know what I mean. The ending kind of appears out of nowhere all of a sudden, and I am with @MegaSigil in thinking that there would be much more of a tragic element than an unambiguously (?) happy ending.

Overall, the movie surprised me at basically every turn and made a ton of unique choices. It didn’t feel like anything else I’ve ever seen, which is exactly the kind of movie I like. I will take all the rough edges and awkwardness if it’s in service of something that feels fresh and exciting.

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I’m walking out of megalopolis now and quite liked it. Felt like the film equivalent of my grandma begging my generation to save the world.

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I do want to clarify that in terms of pure filmmaking and performances and big, formalist swings I did have a great time at Megalopolis. I wish every movie looked like this. I just feel like I’ve been hearing Coppola gas up how important this story is for a while and based on my personal interpretation of it I think he’s really lacking in perspective for a dude his age

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yeah I mean i think it was very out of touch but he meant well? Some of the politicking (particularly the kind of odd jab at cancel culture) was pretty egregious.

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I’ve never actually heard a word Coppola has said – I just like Bram Stoker’s Dracula a lot. On a philosophical or thematic level Megalopolis is pretty brain-dead; this is kind of what I meant with the “youthful naivete” I mentioned earlier. I tend to go into movies accepting that a lot of these directors with interesting visual styles will always be lacking a bit in this department. I mean, at one point Caesar holds a copy of Siddhartha right up to the camera for about two seconds. I love Hermann Hesse but that’s pretty lame. And having a character quote Marcus Aurelius three times in a row. Also having Adam Driver give the whole Hamlet “to be or not to be” soliloquy for no apparent reason.

With all this stuff, while watching the movie I felt that it didn’t take itself particularly seriously, so it’s weird to hear that Coppola has been hyping it up as this important message. Almost every scene made me laugh, whether from some exaggerated line-read or just a weird mannerism from one of the actors. Most of this humour was definitely intentional, including the final moments of Clodio and Wow Platinum.

So, I don’t know how to reconcile all that, except by once again mentioning Kojima, who takes his games incredibly seriously in interviews, but then fills the actual works with tons of intentionally goofy moments that are explicitly played for laughs (even inserting them into pivotal dramatic moments.) Honestly, the more I think about it, the more parallels I find, from characters spouting half-baked political philosophies at each other, to bombastic speeches that kind of circle around themselves into nonsense – to incredibly high-concept technologies/superpowers that are only dealt with in on their most mundane level.

Some thoughts on the superpowers

(One thing I’ve been thinking about is the fact that Caesar can stop time – and yet, this power is never used instrumentally. He only ever seems to use it in order to ponder/reflect on things, or as a funny game with himself while drunk. Sometimes, other people are included in his stop-time world, and sometimes not. Which makes me think that the whole thing is is entirely psychological, and not “real” in the world in any sense.)

With both creators, I leave the experience thinking “wow, that was cool and interesting on an aesthetic/emotional level, and unlike anything else in this medium,” but not particularly impressed with the philosophical/political messages being presented. They feel shallow and not well thought-through. You can tell that the creators have looked at and thought about a lot of stuff, but that they tend to bounce around between ideas so quickly that there’s rarely a deeper level of penetration.

Of course, translating more complicated ideas into a movie or video game is a lot more difficult than simply having them or thinking about them – often, things need to be simplified just to make a coherent plot and world appear on the screen. I wouldn’t assume that Coppola is actually stupid or naive, but instead that he had to sacrifice a certain depth in order to make the movie possible. But hey, I might be wrong.

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I just can’t see it having done anything better than Satyricon from 1969, it’s like all the bad Reagan era/Randian politics of the 80s revived in a Robert Moses wannabe and then the director saying “welp guess nothing worked”. The writing was reactionary nonsense (not to mention the terrible Shakespeare mimicking which was abandoned after the first third of the movie?), the aesthetics were cheap and empty (bloom everywhere, like a PS3/360 era videogame), and at least for the audience I was with, nothing was intentionally funny (nobody laughed except at the ending Wow/Clodio scene). If fascism is aesthetics, then this is like a bargain-bin child’s version - this was one of the most emotionally empty movies I’ve ever seen (in my opinion). None of the “emotional” lines were convincing because none of the people talked like real people, none of them were real people. The one thing I can’t understand is people saying they haven’t seen anything like it - I didn’t see any originality here (like I said before a sci-fi Satyricon?), more like a mishmash of other movies/stories with nothing sticking together coherently. It’s proof that there’s nothing politically from him worth salvaging - he has no new or worthwhile ideas (which is also true for a lot of people from his generation).

Sorry this isn’t really aimed at anyone in particular, just venting

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