@“2501”#p133744 Yes I had to spend quite a bit of time reading through this because like Karasu said there is zero in-game explanation for the way a lot of the stuff works lol
@“2501”#p133744 lol not sure how I missed that, but thank you!
fwiw I don’t remember ever referencing the manual when I played it on Gamecube lol. It’s overwhelming at first but it does start to make sense before long. The early hours of the game only really want you to worry about basic attack/defense/healing turns, and gradually you will figure out stuff like elemental properties, number matches, special combos, etc.
Well you all convinced me. I‘ve an hour or two into Baten Kaitos, and I’m not ready to say I'm in love with it yet, but I do have a crush on it.
I like the way it breaks the fourth wall, I like the confidence it has in its silly world and its people, and the battle system is fun and not quite like anything I've played before. The closest comp is, weirdly, probably Slay the Spire? Hopefully this doesn't become as brain-poisoningly addictive as Spire was for me :o
More than anything, though, I love the feeling of digging into a PS1-era JRPG that I've never played before. I know it isn't precisely that, but it sure does feel like that, as has been mentioned in this thread.
Good stuff! About the only thing I don't like is the UI. But I can overlook that.
@“whatsarobot”#p133916 Yeah rediscovering the game as a Proper Adult one striking thing is how the ultra-conceptual fusion of tabletop card game and console RPG mechanics feels closer to an indie RPG of the last 10 years than any other console RPG of the time. Yet at the same time, outside of battle it feels so completely like a Real JRPG of the Squaresoft golden era, to an extent that makes me remember how much I’ve missed those. (The weird fantasy cities and cards kind of specifically remind me of Final Fantasy IX?)
I’m also fascinated by how much you can detect traces of prior and subsequent games its developers were involved in, all of them far better known: if you’re keen-eyed you can see little nods to the _Chrono_ games and _Xenogears_, and right next to them are concepts that would later pop up in _Xenoblade_ and even latter-day _Zelda_. And in between all of them is an artstyle and sense of visual worldbuilding that really is not like any other game I’ve played: like I mentioned in the OP, the specific combo of Arabic, Mesoamerican and a tiny bit of Okinawan aesthetics (in the oar-fighter party member who looks like FF10 Wakka) is just totally unlike anything I’ve seen. JRPG art design has regressed!!
@“2501”#p134211 That’s all beautifully put. Baten Kaitos really might represent an apex of sorts for the genre. Excited to discover all those little nods you mentioned, because I’m a fan of all of those games.
It definitely feels much more modern than say Chrono Cross, which I didn’t expect! I’m still not sure it will end up being a favourite of mine but I’m really glad I’m playing it!
@“whatsarobot”#p134280 A lot of the nods (or in some cases, just similar scenes/concepts) are evident right from the beginning, but they’re pretty subtle!
The opening village resembles Lahan from Xenogears, particularly the hero waking up there under the care of a suspiciously well-educated doctor with practical knowledge of the evil empire’s technologies
The names of Xelha’s two bodyguards, “Gram” and “Leon”, are references to the Japanese name of the Masamune in _Chrono Trigger_ (“Grandleon”). (Ted Woolsey changed it back in the day because “Masamune” evokes an exotic sword to Westerners while “Grandleon” doesn’t really evoke much of anything.)
Xelha’s introduction and Gram & Leon’s deaths are recreated almost exactly for the character Melia’s introduction in _Xenoblade_, right down to the forest setting.
One of the elements in the game’s battle system is “chrono” (it’s the inverse of “wind”, for some reason).
The setting of a sky island archipelago on a cloud sea above a postapocalyptic earth is reused in both _Zelda: Skyward Sword_ and _Xenoblade 2_ (and arguably _Zelda: TotK_ as well).
One of the early objectives in the game is infiltrating a governor’s mansion, which is visually and narratively similar to _Chrono Cross_.
Scenes of imperial emissaries in airships pushing around a vain, pudgy regional governor echo similar scenes in both _Xenogears_ and _Xenoblade 2_.
There are also a couple explicit references to _Xenosaga_ later in the game (along with other Namco properties like _Pac-Man_ and _Tower of Druaga_).
There’s definitely more, some of which are huge late game spoilers lol. But it’s worth noting the continuity of staff between all these games: Masato Kato worked on the _Chrono_ series and _Xenogears_; Yasuyuki Honne worked on those plus small support roles in _Xenoblade_ and every Zelda from _Skyward_ on; Koh Kojima had major roles in both _BK_ games and every _Xenoblade_ entry.
@“2501”#p134305 Thanks for the rundown! Some of these, I‘m already nodding my head, and others I probably wouldn’t have noticed at all. Your passion for this game is clear, and it's contagious!
The battle system is starting to "click" for me, and I'm really looking forward to each encounter now, hoping to get cool cards.
I‘m defo gonna purchase it, but I may have to wait for a sale or something. Money’s tight right now. In the meantime is it true that the game‘s framerate changes between 60 and 30? Sounds like the same issue with Link’s Awakening.
This thread keeps me interested and will have to wait for a sale.
@“Privately_Attack”#p134397 I’d guess the framerate fluctuates even more than this - 60 in a “good” area and well under 30 in a densely packed one. It is noticeable. This must be deep in the game’s code or something though, because it was like this on the Gamecube too!
These games and Tales of Symphonia softened the blow (as a JRPG fan) of only owning a gamecube when I was a kid, thanks for boosting it - still blows my mind that it‘s Sakuraba’s daughters voice on Le ali del principio
https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/baten-kaitos-i-ii-hd-remaster
WELL
Baten Kaitos HD just got rated for PC in Australia.
FYI, the latest update (Ver. 1.0.2) fixing the menu-locking bug highlighted above by @“HeavenlyHalberd”#p133532 has just dropped today. I am planning to start the game tomorrow in the plane.
@“Privately_Attack”#p134577 lmao, I wonder if the reason this got zero promotion is because Nintendo wanted the project done in the first place but then got mad that Bamco wouldn’t make it exclusive?
https://mynintendonews.com/2023/09/26/baten-kaitos-ⅰ-ⅱ-hd-remaster-has-now-been-rated-for-pc/
It's likely the game will be coming to PC
@“◉◉maru”#p134588 Heck yes, glad to hear I don't have to be terrified in menus now!
Nintendo’s put out a brief not-Iwata Asks interview with the key creative staff at Monolith.
Baten Kaitos really is wonderful. I've been taking it ridiculously slowly, sipping at it for 15 or 20 minutes at a time. But it remains in my mind, where I can luxuriate in its vibe whenever I like.
Curses to Tears of the Kingdom for hogging all my game-playing time, basically. If only I could get its hooks out of me and focus on BK. It'll happen eventually.