Shmups/STGs/Shoot 'em ups

video games
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I just started playing Eschatos on Switch and it‘s such a blast. Kinda makes me think of Cho Ren Sha with how it’s a continuous flow with music changes. The music, both original and arranged, rules, and so do the strange unlockables.

I love the feedback loop of inching a little further, and getting noticeably better in earlier levels, and unlocking things that effectively make it easier to get further like more continues starting off, and more lives per continue. Also really amused by some unlocks just being stuff like “Wallpaper Brightness” and “Demo Sound” which you’d think would be a sound test, but is in fact enabling sound effects in attract mode. Great stuff, feels really good with an arcade pad.

On top of that I beat Cotton Reboot in anticipation for Rock ‘n’ Roll, and nabbed Darius Burst CS again on PC. Both games are an audio and visual delight. Darius Burst CS’ DLC Mode is making me wish there were other Taito STG collections, would love a RayForce/RayStorm/RayCrisis one some day.

Music!!

Aah, can’t wait to experience Cotton Rock ‘n’ Roll. It looks pretty sick.

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I check the eShop for Cotton Fantasy in the west like every day. Nintendo Life put up their review yesterday (it was positive) and said that “Western console owners will soon be able to pick up a digital and limited physical release.”

I haven’t dipped into Eschatos yet since I just dropped $40 on Deathsmiles, but the latter collection is expectedly excellent. I absolutely cannot believe the, uh, story in Deathsmiles II (for better and worse). That one feels like a lost Dreamcast game (and one of just a few Christmas games!) but I’d put Deathsmiles I in my upper echelon of Cave shmups just for sheer fun-ability. The style and music is all there, and the two-direction shooting is never not fun.

Did a run of Gunnail, and it’s comfort food. The soundtrack is slappy, the name is excellent and I love the dense pixel art. Score chasers might really like the scoring system, which rewards you for taking hits.

@TracyDMcGrath will be happy to know that I finished Orius/Xexex and loved it. Not only did its psychedelic late-80s anime style and flare surprise me, I was just floored by how much mileage it got out of the “Flint” system. I feel like STGs really have to thread the needle when it comes to mechanics like that (I wrote a while ago how Cotton Boomerang’s boomerang system didn’t really work for me), I think because of the visual overload and reaction time inherent in a shmup paired with too many systems – it can get messy. But the amount of options you have with essentially a two-button system – you can use the flint as a battering ram, an AI-controlled drone (in 1991!) or a projectile – feels just right. I’d encounter a group of enemies or a tight squeeze that would instantly make me remember a method that I’d neglected because I was leaning on another means of attack too much, and that always felt good. My only gripe is that the music seems to be mixed waaaaay down compared to the sound effects, and I loved what I heard. Is that just on the Arcade Archives version, or is the mix always that low?

@whatsarobot I also have been really chin-deep in a shmup renaissance since the pandemic (most often as an aesthetic tourist rather than a high-level player), and it sounds like you’re good to go. It does have a lot of (very stylish and very skippable) story, but I’d urge you to pick up the Switch port of Gleylancer because for only about $6, it’ll not only add some 16-bit spice and more horizontal scrolling to your lineup, it’ll add some of the absolute best of those categories to your plate (the port was one of my favorite games of 2021, period). Next time you want to drop more money, I’m obligated to recommend Cotton Reboot!, as that’ll introduce you to the most ~ iconic ~ cute 'em up with a solid version of the X68000 edition as well as the absolutely excellent, very beginner friendly Cotton Reboot! remake.

On the PC Engine front, I’m surprised you’ve heard mixed things – I always thought it had a rep as theshmup console. If you have access to an emulation machine, PC Engine is so easy to emulate and easy to scoop up massive ROM libraries. One of my favorite shmupy things to do is to just hit the random button on my PC Engine ROM collection, cause there’s like a 50 percent chance it’s gonna be an STG, and only a handful of them are really bad. Everyone’s recs are great, but I think there’s a lot of joy in just jumping in blind and discovering the weird ones (especially if you can do it for free/cheap).

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@tokucowboy I didn’t notice much of a difference between the Mame and switch port mixing, it is kinda muffled sometimes. Also my favorite tracks are mostly from the back half and are too short; I was trying to figure this one out on piano a while back:

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@TracyDMcGrath Ugh, that’s so good. And lord , that artwork

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@tokucowboy I‘m in the same situation as you. A tourist of the genre who’s thinking of moving there permanently and maybe applying for citizenship in a few years. Thanks for the recommendations! I had skipped past Gleylancer on the eShop, but only because I thought it was a new game with old-looking aesthetics, and that can be a dicey proposition. Adding it to my wish list for sure! I also read the Nintendo Life review of Cotton Rock‘n’Roll, and that‘s on my radar now, so I’ll give Reboot! a look as well. Funny story: at the very beginning of the pandemic, my friend was gifted a Cotton game for PS4 (don‘t remember which one), and both of us were like, what the hell is this? lol. I think he ended up giving it away to someone. Funny how quickly things can change. I’d gladly take it off his hands now.

IMPORTANT EDIT: I just inquired, and my friend still owns that copy of the game, and is willing to just give it to me! Happy days are here again.

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Open question to everyone:

@JJSignal mentioned using an arcade pad, and that speaks to something I’ve been wondering about. Does anyone here recommend investing in an arcade stick for shmups?

I’ve been thinking about getting one for a long time, because I also enjoy experimenting with old 2D fighting games. But with those, I feel like a controller with a decent d-pad is just as good.

What’s the preferred way to play shmups, for you? Analog sticks? D-pads? Arcade sticks? Does it matter? Just curious.

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@whatsarobot i recently got the 8bitdo arcade stick and it feels like 30% more fun playing shmups with it

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@whatsarobot I‘ll sometimes use a stick, but I’m a little more comfortable just using a normal controller. D-pad is my standard, but I’ll sometimes switch to analog stick.

I live in an apartment and don’t have a ton of space and don’t really like unpacking my stick from the bottom of my pile of video game stuff in my closet. If I had a setup where I could just leave it on a coffee table all the time, I might use the stick more.

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@whatsarobot I‘m probably an outlier, but I’ve only really felt like a joystick made a difference for me back when I was playing more Cave stuff, mostly on X360, and for that I used a Hori Real Arcade Pro EX SE, which was super solid and responsive. But for the more old school shooters that I prefer these days, I get by just fine with a Switch Pro controller… which will probably horrify a bunch of folks. But then these days I’m a lot more about look and feel and design than I am getting high scores.

After getting myself really excited about Cotton Fantasy, it turns out it’s delayed till spring in the west… boooooo.

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One day I will roll out the 8bitdo stick with all my Switch shmups – I don‘t think it’ll do it for ultra-high-level players (though it can be part swapped), but it‘s a pretty solid (and very nice looking) all-rounder for a decent price. In terms of dpad vs. analog stick, it usually depends on the context of the game if it was designed for a console, or the feel of a game if it’s an arcade release

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone. At this point, I‘m also mostly still in it for the aesthetics, but I do want to get better. My friend has offered to lend me a fight stick he’s not using anymore (but it‘s a Mad Catz, so I’m not sure how much to expect). It looks like the 8bitdo stick doesn‘t ship to Japan, so that doesn’t seem like an option for me, though it does look quite nice!

My big takeaway here though is that it really does depend on which game you're playing. Different inputs will feel better for different games.

Unrelated, but does anyone else here feel like there's just too much going on in Crimson Clover? It's maybe a little _too_ maximalist for my taste!

Spent some time with Mushihimesama as well. Feels similar to Dragon Blaze to me so far, which is a good thing!

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@whatsarobot I‘ve been revisiting MushihimeSama on Switch too, after originally bouncing hard off the PC version (though that’s more to do with the fact that I don’t find playing at my PC especially comfortable). The Steam version had fewer modes if I recall correctly too.

I haven’t really touched many Cave games for many years, and I’d forgotten just how good they felt to play. MushihimeSama Futari was the game that got me back into the genre when that was released on 360, and that was a lesson in difficulty for sure. Similarly, playing the original on Switch has reminded me just how tough and fast this game is - I cannot bear stage 3 on a single credit (yet). It’s also reminded me just how fun a good Arrange mode feels to play too, and this one is superb. Max power? Bonkers numbers? Sign me up!

I’m tempted to reinvest in Espgaluda 2 and Dodonpachi Resurrection too even though I have both on 360. I assume that they have all the additional dlc, etc too?

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@LeFish I know Dodonpachi does, but I’m not sure about Espgaluda 2. Only a matter time before I add them both to my collection, I think. I’ve never played either!

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@whatsarobot Mad Catz may have made a name for themselves with terrible $5 generic controllers, but for the last decade or so they have been Hori’s main competition. Their fightsticks are great.

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@TracyDMcGrath I wouldn’t have expected that! Because, yeah, I worked at EB Games during that first phase you mentioned. Glad they turned that ship around!

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Does anyone know what the standard ship count per credit in the arcades was/is for Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu? The Switch version in the normal game mode gives you three ships per credit. Is this correct? I realise that game center operators would probably change these but what‘s the norm? I’m really enjoying having a couple of runs a day at it to try and 1cc but want to make sure my 1cc is “”“legit”“”. Thanks!

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@Chopemon the Switch version is basically one to one with the initial 360 release. All defaults are legit

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@LeFish I‘ve also been playing Mushihimesama lately! On Steam though, not the Switch. Interesting to hear that Switch one has more modes. I’ve been having a great time with this one though!! Just the other day I single credit cleared the novice original mode (my first 1CC in any game!), so now I‘m bumping up to novice maniac mode. What I was most impressed by already is how gradual and natural, yet still significant even just that slight bump in difficulty is. The perfect step up for someone who just 1CC’d the previous difficulty and is looking for something just a little more. Fascinating scaling in this game, which is incredible with how there‘s three different modes with three different difficulties (and more on the Switch?? Hoo-wee!). That’s essentially just playing the same game 9 times, but it sure doesn’t feel like it!

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@TracyDMcGrath Fantastic, thanks!

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@Funbil Yep, I think it was the 1.5 mode that was DLC on Steam and it‘s included as standard on Switch. I have yet to try it myself but I believe there’s a new colour palette and soundtrack, and enemies are in different locations with different bullet patterns, among a slew of other differences. .