@yeso#20519 hm…plz let me know if i‘m misinterpreting you here but personally i don’t like “this has been said before” as an approach to critique, especially in this case because deleuze (had to look him up) and anyone from chapo trap house aren‘t working in remotely the same mode. i admit i’m kind of anti-intellectual but probably not off base to say that a guy who wrote something called “The Logic of Sense” isn't really presenting ideas that are going to be understandable for the average person
@tapevulture#20540 right gilles deleuze vs chapo trap house wouldn’t exactly be a fair fight. But I meant specifically this 6 page essay that I think is more or less approachable
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/arts/vad/critical_issues_on_art/deleuze_controlsocieties.pdf
and a different sort of experience to watching that big dude smoke weed and ramble in his back yard. Again god bless and I do mean that, but this sticks in my mind as a fair example of how these formats I guess diverge when they’re aimed at the same exact thing
@goonbag#20539
When I wrote the cyberpunk thing I was careful to kind of couch a lot of my statements as an expression of my personal viewpoint because I, too, find a lot of declarative stuff annoying and it didnt want to come off like I was showing up with the One True Interpretation of what cyberpunk is. But often the more you know about a thing the more you realize you dont know and then that imposter syndrome type shit can set it. You can't be afraid of making the point you want to make but you also dont want to come off like you're the only one with all the answers, it can be hard to strike a balance sometimes.
@tapevulture I guess to clarify what I mean is: this was said before and better, and watching hours of video diaries of a non-novel thought taking shape has some drawbacks vs the time and effort of reading an essay. I’m talking specifically about the video essay format, not efforts to communicate lefty concepts in a normal human way (which I agree is the way to go)
@goonbag#20539 yeah the approach really sputters when engaging something that resists explication like TP
this is a matter of literacy as well; what you can expect from these kinds of videos has evolved a lot in the last 10 years. whereas there is a part of it that‘s still just a confident white guy that doesn’t know what he‘s talking about going on and on about whatever, these days i definitely see a lot more people who are parimarily experts on certain fields publishing really in depth stuff for the sake of sharing their knowledge with people, as well as tons of historical interviews. you have Twin Peaks Explained, sure, but you also have 1 hour of David Lynch listening to rain, smoking and reflecting on art, Harry Dean Stanton in conversation with David Lynch, and of course his daily number and weather report. if somebody has it in them to develop a more nuanced perspective, it’s all there. at some point you have to trust people who can will make the effort to look further. the mere concept of “let's hang out and think about this particular thing for an extended period of time” is overall more positive and prone to make people question things than to take them at face value imho.
I'm not criticizing recorded digital film, I specifically mean the process by which the medium-informed and semi-lazy suck up all the oxygen about a topic
@yeso#20552 disseminating information, however lazily, is surely giving oxygen about a topic, not sucking it up. discourse isn‘t diminished by having more discourse, it is enhanced. i understand the frustration of seeing things that are better argued in books being poorly represented, but that’s how human communication works, and it's all good, it all builds up.
@tombo#20558
thats gonna be a no from me, dawg
I do think its very possible for discourse to become "diluted".
[URL=https://i.imgur.com/TGJPbQ0.jpg]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TGJPbQ0.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
@tombo#20558 the hate-ocean of right wing youtube proves otherwise unfortunately
but again my only point is that the current method of video essays seems to me to get kind of hazy and floppy and hard to pin down because of the format/culture/audience expectations, and that they have sort of a different function than I guess a traditional essay form, which has drawbacks. Both have their own drawbacks I mean
@Syzygy#20553 @goonbag I think “smarmy and arrogant” sums up my feelings about the Twin Peaks video in question very well, though I could tack on a few more adjectives if pressed. I think the Journey Through Twin Peaks series by Lost in the Movies is an infinitely more thoughtful, nuanced, and appropriate exploration of the themes and substance of Twin Peaks. The latter demonstrates to me that the potential to use this medium appropriately does exist, if at the expense of algorithmic clickage.
I prefer to view video essays as their own medium with their own best practices--see some of my recommendations in the thread I started for some creators that I think wield it appropriately. It is not a replacement for long-form prose and, when treated as such, can easily devolve into the insufferable talking head format that gives it a bad name.
@yeso#20562
right wing ideas are extremely prevalent across the world, of course they're gonna have an audience online. i don't see what the existence of those proves, other than some people think those things, which is good to know, if you want to confront them. i understand the danger and skepticism in regards to mainstream media, where the means for voicing alternative opinions is extremely restricted, but in terms of youtube, and video essays in particular, there are all kinds of things being uploaded, and i think in general they work more as an avenue for forming better opinions than worse ones. but who knows, maybe i've just curated my subscriptions and algorithm recs TOO well so i'm biased :P
what I mean is: I'm not optimistic that the expanding volume of youtube opinion-stating is a process which leads to good things in aggregate
But again, was just making a critical observation about the limits of the video essay format
anyway I think the angry video game nerd went a little too far in the ecco the dolphin episode. And not to be negative but I wish he'd go back to a less complicated shirt
[“On Video Essays”,"Thoughts on video essays "]
let's be honest the format peaked in 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5D9OZfmOzk
@yeso#20544 ok i will try to check this out, however, by nature i am partial to a large dude smoking weed and rambling in his back yard
yeah i mean, "both have their drawbacks" is the correct take i think. when it comes to "books" you could plausibly argue that the zillions of pages spent theorizing/polemicizing/backbiting in the western marxian tradition have been a complete waste in terms of positive change produced in the world, but sure have absorbed a lot of time/attention/energy
@tombo#20612 I hadn‘t seen this before and it’s hilarious but I also want to state my unironic appreciation for the original Soulja Boy video which was already better than most video games criticism then or now
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@tapevulture#20619 western marxian tradition [has] been a complete waste
maoist forum user "tapevulture"
@captain#20635 hold on, I need to update that last link in my intro post for the “Video Essay Recommendations” thread