Video Game Archaeology

@CidNight#32843 The time scale in Nier is just so mind bogglingly huge that putting too critical of an eye to it dissolves it all into nonsense. That‘s actually one of the aspects of Nier (and the work of Yoko Taro as I’ve come to understand it) that I especially like–it is completely unabashed about using its status as a work of fiction to play fast and loose with the bounds of reality. It encourages you to both not take it too seriously and to take it very seriously, to the point where the experiencer (hopefully) realizes that degree-of-seriousness is not a linear scale.

So, yeah...maybe the Nier games are not the _ideal_ targets for rigorous architectural analysis lol

@kory#32847 I don't know I think I could use them to talk for about 45 minutes about the preservational stability of steel girders.

Feeling this might be too obvious or that you‘ve certainly already considered it but the Ico games have always wowed me with their architecture/left-behind structures. Shadow has already been analyzed to death in this respect, at least in terms of the function and form of its constructed spaces, but I’d listen to an archaeologist's perspective on it. The Last Guardian may even be more intriguing.

I think these are a great idea and I hadn‘t thought of them. The only one I’ve played is Shadow, the original, and later I played maybe the first three hours of the Bluepoint remake. Those games definitely have an archaeological feel to them - I'd have to get creative about what themes to try and tease out.

@kory#32844 Something was here, long ago

i think this is a super interesting idea with lots of potential. reminds me of History Respawned, which is about how certain games choose to depict historical settings, but also just an excuse to discuss the actual historical settings at length (w/professors and experts on the topic, sometimes straying entirely from discussion of the game). i really like this idea of pulling from something that is vague and maybe even accidental and reading more into it, breathing life into it by connecting it by force to other media and the real world at large. it's a fun mental exercise! i think it would be even more fun if you did it to games that have a less directly archaeological vibe, like idk Noby Noby Boy, Sonic Adventure 2, or the city around a Wipeout racetrack :stuck_out_tongue:

it would be even more abstracted/weird if you examined games you are unfamiliar with as games, so you could freshly look at them as artifacts, specially with games like Skyrim where there are mods that allow you to roam the land as a disembodied ghost-observer and you don't even have to play the game.

@tombo#32921 These are all great ideas and definitely stuff I‘d like to experiment with. For instance, just doing games that don’t obviously have an archaeological vibe. You mentioned Sonic - why not just do a straight old fashioned platformer of universal visibility like Sonic 2 or SMB? Could be a challenging, interesting sort of thing to do. And I do love the idea of doing games I don‘t know - which admittedly there are very many. Even very many well-known games I have never played. Or even brand new games that don’t have any public perception yet. I think there‘s some cool potential here! Just analyzing games in an academic, close way is pretty rare and means there are a lot of openings. I’ll check out this History Respawned, for research.

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@CidNight#32854 only one I’ve played

My goodness, I'd recommend Ico and Last Guardian to anyone interested in the way FromSoft does environments. They're not cut from exactly the same cloth but I think share enough common elements that they'd be of interest to a From devotee.

@captain#32933 I own Ico on PS3. I’m planning on setting up a shiny new CRT setup in my basement for old systems and want to have the PS3 be one of them (this will require downgrading from the hdmi but oh well). Maybe ico can be my first on the new setup!

@CidNight#32934 Now that's Luxury Gaming!! Test that setup with something you know will feel juuuust right.

When you do get around to playing Ico or TLG do share your thoughts somewhere on here. My bias may be making me believe there's more similarity to these disparate series than exists in [actuality](https://forums.insertcredit.com/d/797-lets-fix-videogames/52).

@captain#33017 It's true for a CRT setup I should probably just launch FF4 (you can't even call it Final Fantasy 2 anymore) on my SNES like I intended. But Ico will be on the list! I also really have a hankering to play Fallout New Vegas again too… Maybe because I recently watched this great HBomberguy review of it.

@CidNight#33019 Man, I'd love to play Final Fantasy Four + Two / 358 Days on a CRT.

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HBomberguy review of it

A classic

I am sure you've seen his Dark Souls II video

@captain#33036 Have I ever! I practically wrote it (in my head, years after he had already made that video)

Just a heads up, I‘ve just finished editing episode 2, which I plan to launch mid-day tomorrow. I’ll post it here in this thread when it‘s live. If you haven’t yet - catch episode 1 first! I think episode 2 is a whole lot better produced than the first one. The learning curve is steep but quick.

@CidNight#33118 wow, that's some rapid turnaround right there, very excited!

@kory#33122 I’m sure I’ll run out of steam soon haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtMtqjI-Km0

Episode 2 is live!

Just put it on and first impression: shirt is aces

@kory#33182 I love extremely colorful shirts

I haven‘t watched episode 2 yet but 1 was rad and this is a cool and fun concept for sure. I think you’re right when you said that the From Software level designers are thinking of the history of their spaces and making them as spaces rather than just videogame levels (or at least, they‘re never not both even if they are primarily the latter). It makes some of Dark Souls’ awkward confusing layouts feel like they make more sense as real spaces repurposed as videogame levels, in the same way thinking of the Asylum Demon's room as a gathering place that was repurposed as part of a asylum does. Well, in Dark Souls, at least. I would have a hard time believing Dark Souls 3's Grand Archives were conceived as a space.

To provide some feedback, I would love for you to, as you say, way overthink things like the Asylum Demon boss room more, and dig more into what about rooms like that make you think it's a gathering hall of some kind. To my completely untrained eye archeaologically speaking, my imagination does wander off of that starting point--I see a central open air place, maybe even like a grand ballroom with cathedral like acoustic properties, and covered side areas which would dampen the acoustic effect and allow for conversations or more private interactions. The balcony area has a bit of an odd shape for it, but in a ballroom that could be where a musician would sit, and their playing would project out down on to the hall (maybe that's why it doesn't have a guard rail, to not block the sound). Makes me think of an interesting counterintuitive architectural feature of some European gathering spaces from some periods which would feature musicians, where the insider-outsider dichotomy, most often expressed through placing those with more social status on higher more dominant spaces, is flipped; it was a custom at some point to have higher parts of spaces be for the musicians and the lower open areas be for the upper class, so that the music would project down into the gathering space and the lower class musicians could be kept largely out of sight. Apparently during certain periods, this is why musicians were often employed as spies, they were people who nobles wanted to hear but not see, and some surely neglected to worry about how they could hear as well while not being seen...

Also makes my mind wander to the class aspects of the repurposing of spaces. It makes sense to see high class spaces repurposed for low class purposes, but the opposite does not necessarily hold quite as true (at least, if we're talking architecture, there are sure a lot of high class spaces built on top of what the builders would say is low class land). And it must matter *whose* space is going to get repurposed, and why. Perhaps the Undead Asylum was once a high class building, but its status must have been quite diminished for it to be seen as suitable to turn it into something like that. In contrast, since the status of Anor Londo has not been given up on, at least, the idea of repurposing even a spec of it is inconceivable to whoever persists there. Interesting to note the difference there, how it was seen as necessary to repurpose the space the Undead Asylum is now, because that purpose was needed and the space was surely not held in high regard (and, perhaps, the resources or will to create a new building for it were not there), while it was seemingly decided or felt that Anor Londo would sooner be a shell with no purpose, rather than ever be repurposed.