@“rejj”#p60496 my survival here was entirely down to messages, and at least one was a donkey-milker. Good job!
i understand the misgivings some are having with the open worldiness of this game, both in terms of general dislike of some of the mechanics and in terms of the impact on the souls formula to date. having said that, i want to point out how thoughtful i‘m finding this take on an open world. i’m really taking it slow exploring the world and although i‘ve only seen a small part so far there’ve been several moments that i found breathtaking that simply would not have been possible in a more traditional souls game. the feeling of strolling/riding/creeping around the overworld and suddenly witnessing something in nearby open space… it magnifies the impact of some things, and those things are designed to take full advantage of that. on reflection it‘s very obviously the result of deliberate effort to exploit the inherent qualities of the open world format, but it’s also confidently restrained. i could go on about what i mean by that but instead i should try to sleep before i log back in again
I agree, but think there‘s a difference between open world space and traversal and open world tasks/design. The task/design part is still more of an annoyance in my opinion (gathering stuff, horse, horse jump tornados) which are both a little tedious and also a little unsightly and atmosphere-damaging. So I’m not sure that both open world game axes are fully justified. ER uses the enormous open world spaces to great effect, but that other stuff…. Garishly colored collectibles are at odds visually with the environments, and collecting and horse summoning diminish the traversal and sense of exploration a bit (to me). I just think the game could lose that stuff and personally wish From didn‘t move in that direction, although yeah you’re right they did a way way better job than anyone else!
@“yeso”#p60508
I like the traversal somewhat. I think SMT5 solved traversal in the best, most dead-simple way I've seen though: "What if, like, the character you're controlling just runs fast AF when you hold the run button and can jump a story high? And it, like, feels really good?"
The item stuff does suck. Crafting is nonsense. They had something good and simple, souls were basically the universal currency and it made everything a series of interesting choices. It used to be, "I could level up now and buy a firebomb or just buy 10 firebombs." Now it's "I'm going to level up and then dink around the map for the crap to buy a firebomb - errrr you know what? Forget it." I already despised DS consumables, now it's just another layer.
My biggest peeve though is that the game gives me myriad actions and items, but doesn't trust me to use them. The circle button is a shift key of sorts, that gives access to 4 commands. If I'm trusted to be able to use this, then just make each of the directional buttons a shift key, giving me on demand access to 50 or so of the 1,000 items and actions available. I'm not really using any of them now, because I have to dig through a menu each time to do it.
Great game though. =)
I am honestly more annoyed by how generous the game is in terms of the actual valuable items than any of the crafting stuff. I don‘t mind generally pushing triangle a bunch of times every few steps and so far crafting has been unobtrusive otherwise, just something I use when I need some fire resin or arrows or whatever. I could buy the gathering spots being at odds with the art direction but at the same time, aren’t the traditional light orbs marking the item drops just as bad in that regard?
The way Elden Ring panders to the player via constant rewards and cool items does on the other hand feel very out of touch with the design philosophy of the traditional From games (back to the King's Field 1 days). Good exploration for me is sometimes finding good stuff, sometimes finding nothing at all. In ER I keep feeling that no matter what I do, the game is going to give me something worthwhile, and ironically that is making the game feel a bit too tame, too docile and too predictable for me. After 30 hours this feels to me like the game's biggest concession to the mainstream philosophy design, and a general departure from the dark humor and twisted sense of comedy that has imo characterized these games from the beginning.
To offer one example, I've used a bunch of stonesword keys and there has always been something super amazing on the other side. That's one risk-reward mechanic whose purpose is completely defeated if there is not at least a chance of not getting something good. I may have been incredibly lucky for what I know, but seeing how every cave, settlement, or interesting spot has always given me something valuable, I doubt it.
So here's hoping for AT LEAST one dungeon in which the reward is literally a piece of shit.
[upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/i4Iyfq9.png]
@“JoJoestar”#p60512 Craving some Pharros' Lockstone action, eh?
@“fridgeboy”#p60516 There were also the rhombus keys in King's Field 2 but yeah, I think that particular conceit was better executed in Dark Souls 2 than in here.
lol I just picked up a 2nd key was getting ready to head back to that door…
@“treefroggy”#p60491 OK, I put a few more hours in last night and I am definitely coming around on it, both as an open world game and as a Souls game. The servers were down for maintenance for a little while, so I just booted into offline mode and decided to approach it similar to how I play, say, a modern Fallout or BOTW: I just placed a marker somewhere in the far distance and headed there, come what may. It's such a different experience without all of the little (often distressingly juvenile) messages signposting everything and I happened across some truly bizarre and awe-inspiring sights completely organically.
Eventually, I decided to sign back into the servers and bash my head against ||Margit|| a bit more, eventually prevailing in no small part due to an uncommonly helpful summon. From there, I made my way into ||Stormveil Castle|| and since then I've been treated to some deliciously familiar Dark Souls flavors.
So, yeah, it's a way better open world game and a way better Souls game than I originally thought! I'm still kind of on the fence about how well they mesh, but I'm not about to complain when I get to play masterfully crafted versions of two of my favorite genres at the same time!
@“JoJoestar”#p60512 I‘ve run into an area that seemed interesting and encountered my first trapped chest that took me to a world of pain. I think since we’re all in the early areas, we‘re shocked at how friendly it is in general– I’m 100% certain the back half of this game is gonna be filled with spite. It‘s why I’m so glad the scarlet rot area is right there, connected to the first part of the game– for those of us who are seeking a challenge and think the world is too friendly.
Amidst the rot I found >!a cursed town!<, and looking down at it reminded me of >!lower undead burg.!<
@"JoJoestar"#p60519 Nah man, rhombus key was the best use of limited keys imho! the underworld was really fun because of them. Also KF3 has the same key mechanic too, in a more open world design!
@"Syzygy"#p60522 I reached the boss of that area and need assistance with it.
@"kory"#525 yeah man if you weren't past margit I can see why you'd be sore over the experience so far. I've been booting to offline a bit too,
>
@“kory”#p60524 often distressingly juvenile) messages signposting everything
yeah couldn't have said it better myself. The messages are really out of hand in this one, due in no small part to the masses of goblins playing this game. One that was so *extra* and *tryhard* was a body with an item laying in a bed in the roundtable hold had a message like "time for horseback battle" and used the animation where your character slumps to their knees.... like everyone is trying to out clever eachother with what is essentially halo-style teabagging and totally missing the nuance of the environment....... it would be funny if wasn't in literally every last corner of the earth..... so annoying.
>
@“treefroggy”#p60528 The messages
I'm quite conflicted about messages, from both a conceptual and practical standpoints. On one hand, they can really detract from the quiet majesty of the world...but on the other hand, I don't get the sense Miyazaki (or the devs in general) want you to take it all _too_ seriously. I mean, a lot of the design of the game amounts to some good-natured trolling of the player, and I am very much on board with that. It's similar to how I regard Nier--Yoko Taro is building at least as much of an elaborate joke as he is a fictional canon and to think of it as only one or the other is missing the point!
Practically-speaking, I'm still not sure where I stand, though based on last nite's experience it seems like I prefer the messages in the Soulsy parts and appreciate the lack of clutter when they are absent during free-roaming exploration.
@“Syzygy”#p60522 Best believe I made note of that one as soon as I first saw and interacted with it.
||Luckily, I didn't have too many problems retrieving my runes down there. And at least one of the main rewards was very much worth it.||
>
@“treefroggy”#p60528 extra and tryhard
maybe I'm a prude, but nothing takes me out of the experience more than this genre of message...the puerile humor is one thing, but then I have to sit there and imagine that there is someone out there who spent this much time to line up the animation _just right_ in order to make the world's least interesting joke (immediately reminded of a spectral figure I saw in the Roundtable last nite with arms akimbo pleasuring two suits of armor with something like "Maybe try two at the same time" scrawled on the floor...barf).
@“kory”#p60537 ah man I saw one like that yesterday but I think it was holding hands with the armors not holding crotches
it‘s the shear volume of but hole jokes that’s the problem, just plastered over anything that resembles an opening or aperture of any kind. I realize it sounds funny when I describe it this way but in practice it's annoying
>
@“treefroggy”#p60528 rhombus key
Yeah for the record I didn't mean that Pharos stones are better, they are just better compared to what I've been seeing here in Elden Ring so far (I'm open to be proven wrong tho). Rhombus keys rule because them being reusable (if I remember correctly!) and also only working one way leads to interesting puzzle like design and management.
Yeah I‘m here for the trolling, obviously since playing Demon’s Souls day 1. but in previous games there was 1/100th the amount of players and 1/100th the amount of messages displayed. I‘ll stop complaining though. I’m certainly no prude (living on the street for over a decade) but I‘m just disgusted by gamers at large, nothing new there lol. Maybe I’ll turn off messages.
ON ANOTHER NOTE: Whoever was looking for the path to the **tower lift**, I will write a message for you near the first incredibly missable step to finding it, hopefully it appears in y'alls worlds!
Alright, we're posting rapidly over here, I'm gonna get back to playin'!
@"JoJoestar"#251 you're entitled to your opinion, I'm clearly a deranged maniac obsessed with King's Field 2, which I played fervently before I touched Demon's Souls. and I agree pharos' stones were better because they weren't passed out like tic tacs as they are in elden ring, where they feel like keys in zelda.
But again, I predict all our whining about the early game being too easy and friendly will quickly evaporate as we move deeper into the world..... hopefully.
I could easily see a dungeon that's just allllll goblin statues. like 50 of them, a tax on your stonesword hoard hoard.
I‘ve been playing 90% of the time offline (I only log in when I’m in the mood for some coop) but so far the most annoying aspect of the message system for me has been: 1) them being white and constantly confusing the heck out of me thinking they are items and 2) the sheer volume of them ruining the vistas and the world design.
@“yeso”#p60508 this is a good assessment imo. i really don‘t like how open world generally means big space to move around in occasionally punctuated by very low-value stuff to pick up. that said…From’s incredible art direction is dressing up this template about as well as one could. i remember thinking that on my first encounter with a pickup, its faint glow and dull coloring were so much nicer than the the shiny glint in BOTW or modern Pokemon. also over there there‘s a group of hairless destitute people worshipping a thing. if you approach them some of them halfheartedly advance on you and then kind of fall down, one of them takes a big clumsy swing at you that misses by 4 feet. you can kill them if you want but there’s no real consequence either way
i haven't gotten the horse yet
I do currently have a surplus of Stonesword Keys, but that's after having bought as many of them as I can from merchants.
Maybe I have packrat sensibilities for this sort of thing, because I don't necessarily like the idea of coming across one and not being able to satisfy my curiosity and open it. So having less than 2 makes me feel like I have none.
Also I'm kicking myself for this because, at least in Stormveil, it seems like at least one of the Stonesword Key fog walls if not both of them (spoiler for interesting angle to Stonesword Keys which may change how you use them in certain cases): ||can be circumvented from getting into them from convoluted paths from above or around them. So sometimes it might be better to explore thoroughly before you use them.|| Well, I'm not too upset about it as I'm not sure how I would have figured that out with having used them. And, I could be wrong entirely, ||maybe it's not possible to get into those areas without using the keys, I only figured out the physical connections after I had used the keys.||