Final Fantasy for Sickos (SaGa Series)

A thread to talk about the long-running Square (Enix) RPG series SaGa.

The SaGa series is helmed by Akitoshi Kawazu, a battle designer from Final Fantasy 1 & 2. It’s known for its unique approach to storytelling and gameplay systems.

Each game is a standalone entry with no direct story sequels at this time.

In the last 5 years or so the series has been very active, with Square Enix releasing new games in the series and lots of re-releases of older titles.

What’s your experience with the series and thoughts on it? Looking forward to learning and digging in.


View the breakdown of the various releases in this long-running series:

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Fantastic podcast episode introducing the series and recent releases:


Square Enix dropped SaGa Frontier 2 Remastered today which looks gorgeous:


big Q: where do folks recommend ppl new to the series start?

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Oh hey, it was my new years gaming resolution to dig further into this series! I haven’t played that many yet, but I enjoy how completely different it is from every other rpg I’ve ever played. It’s like this other evolutionary path that jrpgs could have taken but mostly didn’t.

I’ve played to completion:
SaGa 1
SaGa Frontier (with most, but not all, characters)
SaGa Frontier 2

I’ve played a bit of:
SaGa 2
Minstrel Song
Romancing SaGa (regular)

It’s really interesting how there are these smaller subseries within SaGa. Like, SaGa is pretty different from Romancing SaGa, even though they also share a lot of things. And SaGa Frontier is different again.

I think, as long as you read the manual, SaGa 1 is really playable and not too long.

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I started that there Saga Frontier 2 Remake on Steam Deck tonight. What a strange RPG! Strange in the best way. It has frequent saving, which I love. The storytelling is extremely unique to say the least with time skips and advancement. The story presentation almost feels like a stage play in a sense, with how it’s told. In about 40 minutes it does more for setting up an interesting story than most RPGs do in the first 5 hours.

When you first get control of your character only to walk to the blacksmith and be put back into the event scenario. The first battle is very difficult if you don’t realize you need to use your martial arts. I died the first time thinking it was intentional and I was suppose to lose the battle.

The look of the game is so unique. Pixel art sprites but on a stylistically painted 2D background. The color palette is quite refreshing. It reminds me of Bravely Default in terms of its visual style in towns.

Game runs really well and feels like a good fit for Steam Deck.

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This game looks beautiful—need one play the first?

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Unclear! I haven’t played the first and am just diving into 2. Doesn’t seem to be necessary but @Mnemogenic could probably answer definitively.

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None of the SaGa games are connected. It’s like Final Fantasy where there are some common elements but it’s all distinct.

I love the gameboy SaGa games, SaGa 2 was the first game I bought with my own money and got me hooked on RPGs before Pokemon did. I didn’t understand it at the time, and I’ll be honest I still don’t quite understand it, but it’s a great time. SaGa 1 is a tight and beautiful game that folds into itself really well, and SaGa 3 is a big sprawling adventure and it’s amazing that they put a whole big deal JRPG on the gameboy.

I’ve also played a bunch of Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song and Romancing SaGa 3. Haven’t played Frontier yet, but I’m sure I’ll get around to it at some point! These games are all good time in the same way that Final Fantasy 2 is. Akitoshi Kawazu was on to something.

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SaGa rules! You can play them in any order, they are all fairly different and interesting. Some are a bit more arcane than others, though.

I think Minstrel Song is approachable and a good mix of everything neat about the series. Romancing SaGa 2 is a fan-favorite as well. The remake is probably fine, but (based on the demo) it has been smoothed out a bit too much. Part of the fun of these games is how rough around the edges and experimental they are.

SaGa’s approach to jRPGs (in story and systems sense) is fairly unusual, so adjust your expectations. I believe Kawazu has mentioned being a tabletop RPGer, and somewhat feels like a DM crafting a journey of “scenarios” for the players to enjoy and interact with, while keeping details under wraps, and not really about the destination.

For example in SaGa Frontier 2 important characters inexplicably disappear from the story without a trace. Whether by design (move on, the tale is not really about them) or lack of time (the remaster is adding a bunch of new scenes), it’s a rather memorable quirk.

Protip: don’t grind (too much)! Your characters have better chance to grow when fighting harder enemies. Enemies also grow stronger the more you fight, so only battling weak enemies is often detrimental in the long run. Some memorable moments come from tough battles where you glimmer a super-useful tech in the last moment. Do expect difficulty spikes though, there is a reason you can save anywhere.

Most importantly: don’t worry too much. The series is full of little inexplicable things for you to experiment with but not quite understand. It’s fine to shrug them off and keep going as long as you are having fun.

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I’m a big SaGa fan too, but with the note that I probably enjoy that it exists as a series more than I like playing it, if that makes any sense. I think I’m ultimately more uptight of an RPG player than is ideal in a SaGa liker, so I balk at some of the stranger aspects of it, and at the overall lack of directing the player in almost any way. My favourite is probably SaGa Frontier 1, and I did actually end up playing and finishing a bunch of it a few years back when it was rereleased.I always really enjoyed how the different protagonists all feel a little like they’re from completely different games. I also enjoyed Minstrel Song, despite it having some of the least appealing (like really, really unattractive) character models ever in a game. But in a strange way I think that’s part of the appeal!

Wasn’t Frontier 2 one that Kawazu wasn’t involved with? Or am I remembering it wrong? I always enjoyed its aesthetic on the PS1 but there’s something odd about how the backgrounds have been upscaled.

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Kawazu produced it!

It’s interesting you mention this… I was wondering how the backgrounds in particular were HD-ified in Frontier 2 Remastered. Is it an AI upscale or a specific filter? There’s a menu option to toggle bilinear filtering on and off.

Regardless, I actually really like the backgrounds myself but could very much see how someone might not be into it. Coming off of the Suikoden HD remasters whose backgrounds look unholy, it works quite well IMO.


Something vaguely interesting is that a lot of the PS1 and PS2 games are relatively affordable still! As I’ve been checking out some older games lately, the prices are nuts. But much of the original SaGas are reasonably priced.

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Lol, I guess I’m thinking of a different game!

I’ll definitely be picking up Frontier 2, thanks for sharing your impressions. I initially found Frontier 1’s scaling to look a bit odd but I quickly got used to it.

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I played the Wonderswan Saga remake last year and was amazed how propellant it felt for a game its age. A little grindy to start, but once things get moving, you are just charging up that tower until the final ascent back up. Its funny because I had the idea that the mutant class was basically a gamble, but I now feel it is the way more interesting choice because having a shift power set means the combat is a constantly shifting engagement. I hope to take a shot at the DS SaGa 2 remake this year.

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What’s your experience with the series and thoughts on it?

Back in the day, I played a couple of Final Fantasy Legends on my Game Boy Advance. They were discount purchases, and I played them like discount games. I liked them, didn’t understand them, and set them aside about as eagerly as I started them. Final Fantasy Adventure (bought at the same time) made a more lasting impression.

Two decades later, I try SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions. I pick Leonard as my first character. It’s so good. I love how open-ended and unfocused it is, just “here’s a big map with weird stuff and the vaguest of ideas where to go.” I eventually end up at a capital city and actually advance the storyline, but I’m also figuring out what butterflies do and how to upgrade equipment. The battle system is unforgiving but also feels fair, if that makes sense - use abilities, see if they spark, learn how to manipulate turn order (but don’t hyperfocus on just doing that), buffs, debuffs. After several hours, I end up stopping after a session and not coming back. I try again a year later with Urpina, but it didn’t stick that time.

A few months ago I tried SaGa Frontier. I played as Red. It was fine, but I eventually experienced the same thing as before. The story didn’t really keep me around.

Saga is good, but it doesn’t usually stick with me so far. I don’t think it’s as simple as mechanics good, story not as good. Instead, maybe I like the mechanics in theory or as I start to learn them, but then I get to a point where I’ve had enough, probably as the mid or late-game difficulty scales. And I like the fact I can’t really predict where the story is going, but I want a clearer arc to sink my teeth into after a certain point. I’m always glad to play a SaGa, even if it isn’t for very long.

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Looking forward to reading this thread, posting so that discourse keeps me posted as replies come in. Where I stand with this series:
I LOVE SaGa 1 and 2, have played both multiple times across many different hardwares, own CIB copies.
I love Final Fantasy II of the Dawn of Souls GBA version.
I have owned, tried, many other SaGa games, and always bounced off quickly. From SaGa Frontiers 1 & 2, romancing Sa Ga, and Legend of Legacy, they all fail to hook me.
I purchased some really cool offfical SaGa arrangements album from SQ Sounds or something.
My favorite Kawazu game might be Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles for Nintendo GameCube.

As a teen I created my own Table Top RPG based mostly on SaGa 2, with elements taken from Maple Story, FFT, and Etrian Odyssey.

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That’s SaGa/Final Fantasy Legend 3—Kawazu & co. shifted to SFC for Romancing SaGa, so SaGa 3 was assigned to Square’s new Osaka studio, which later made FF Mystic Quest and another SFC-only RPG called Rudra no Hihou. (The lead on Saga 3/FFMQ ended up working as the Square-side lead on Super Mario RPG, and would later form AlphaDream, the studio behind most of the Mario & Luigi games.)

SaGa 3 was remake for DS, and Kawazu Kawazu’d all over that version.

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I’m now about three hours into SaGa Frontier 2 Remastered. I played a bit on the TV last night and more handheld this morning. Works well for both! It is such a fascinating game.

The best way I’d describe playing it is that it is like playing a JRPG for the first time. I don’t understand much, a lot is happening, and it’s quite fun learning the systems. Sort of like playing Pokémon for the first time 25 years ago or however long it has been. I have played a fair amount of JRPGs over the years and the combat is very unique… It almost feels experimental. There are just attacks I’ve never used and don’t see a use for. There’s a combo system that I haven’t even accidentally used once yet let alone intentionally use to my advantage. But seems to be an important part of combat.

Some shocking moments are when you get entered into a Duel, which uses a different combat system centered around combining 4 attacks to maximize damage with combos (different than the regular combat’s combos that I haven’t figured out yet). Then even more shocking is that there are then turn-based strategy segments ala Advance Wars!

The music is good. Weirdly, the text rendering makes no sounds unlike most RPGs. And pressing the continue button during text scenes does not have a confirmation sound. Not a problem per se, just an oddity I noticed.

The menus are exceptional. I watched some videos of the OG Frontier 2 and I think the improved menus and the increased combat speed seem like game changers. I sometimes try combat at 1x speed and it’s glacial. 2x is just right for me.

The economy of the storytelling is both refreshing and dizzying. The game is played by choosing moments in a timeline with the two main characters. They exist in the same world and I’d imagine their paths cross… The story scenes may contain just text. Others may have battles. Others still may include map exploration. But after each scene you return to the timeline. You can’t select scenes again, and your items and inventory carry over.

For example, one scene may be a city builder talking to the main character about planning the city and how he’s anxious he may be killed by the main character due to hearing how harsh he is. Then another scene is just exploring a cave. Very different than anything I’ve played, much like the combat.

The storytelling is almost impressionistic in its approach. Very unlike modern RPGs that spend so much time with the story and dialogue and want to almost be movies. This is a game about the world they’re in, the characters, and their lifespans. No time to dilly dally.

A problem with this approach to storytelling, even though I very much like it so far because it is not wasting my time, is that I barely know who is who. There are no character portraits, even though the key art is gorgeous. Some sprites you don’t even see their faces on the sprite, just the back of their heads, so I have a difficult time remembering who is who. The plot trucks ahead. What I previously said continues to be true, in 3 hours the game has told a compelling story that would normally be the entire plot of a full RPG.

Even with just text and cute pixel sprites, there have been quite touching moments in the story so far. The writing is quite good. The story scenes jump cut forward in a way that’s unusual. But it happens regularly and is effective. There’s barely even a fade between them, it’s unusual. But it works!

This game is not a revered Insert Credit Hang Out Game. It is a team led by a guy who has made a lot of JRPGs and wants to do something different. Go play DQ or FF or any other RPG if you want to explore the world and hang out and want familiar comfort food. Play me if you want something different. That’s what the game is saying for me.

For years I’ve been wondering if JRPGs just aren’t for me anymore even though I like them in theory. If I have lost the patience required. But SaGa Frontier 2 is showing me an alternative!

Also, the character art (which is rarely in the game but is used to great effect) by Tomomi Kobayashi is just gorgeous:

This is the main character (a little older) lol:

Oh yeah! Also, I ordered Unlimited Saga for PS2. Let’s go! I think that’s the only one not available on modern hardware with a remaster or remake.

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i think this is a cool thing about SaGa/Kawazu’s approach to mechanical complexity, in that they ask you to pay attention but they resist optimization. There’s often so much going on in and out of view at any given point that if you want to succeed you sort of have to accept that a lot of it is out of your hands, shit happens, i ching, whatever man. gotta roll with it. SaGa has healthy boundaries, you gotta meet it halfway, or something

SaGa 3 was the first game i ever really really got hooked on… I am in the process of acquiring a DSi specifically so i can track down a copy of the remake for reasons

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Romancing SaGa 2 is probably the most universally beloved game in the entire franchise, which is always helpful to engage with a specific fandom, and the 2024 remake is both easily (materially) accessible on modern platforms, and a pretty well thought modern take (in terms of UX/UI) for new players. Biggest gripe would be its very average art direction and character design.

It’s de facto the normie answer (as much as one can say that about a SaGa game) but it’s a great entry point to get gently accustomed to the series’ quirks and getting detox’ed from pavlovian FF/DQ expectations before jumping to spicier entries.

You might be misremembering that SaGa Frontier 2 is the entry that longtime series composer Itō Kenji wasn’t involved in, instead leaving his seat to a then still relatively unknown Hamauzu Masashi. There was a lot of groaning from SaGa fans about this at the time.

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I think you’re probably right! I knew there was something unique about it, I was just forgetting what that something was.

I’m a little bit inclined to pick up the remaster, even though I just started a game! My copy of PS1 SF2 is Japan region and it’s a little too challenging for my extremely basic reading comprehension. I haven’t played it in decades!

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I was really surprised to find out that Hamauzu did the soundtrack for SaGa Frontier 2, as I didn’t quite make the connection while playing the game. But then while listening to it outside of the game, I totally made the connection with Final Fantasy XIII’s soundtrack. There’s a definite throughline to Hamauzu’s sound, in a good way. FF13’s soundtrack was the first game soundtrack I ever bought, and I love it dearly. Possibly my favorite part of that game.

I love this track from SaGa Frontier 2, Abweichung. The synths that come in make a very specific mood.

Overall, it’s a very good soundtrack. I listened to it all day today while working. I love that Square Enix makes their soundtracks easy to listen to. :relieved_face:

SF2 Combat Update

I figured out how to do combos in SaGa Frontier 2! The key is that you want to have all of your party members attack the same monster, not divide and conquer. Combos happen with a bit of randomness when various attacks land on the same enemy in succession. It’s about trial and error and seeing what works and doesn’t. Then when you find one that hits hard, you go for it! This experimentation and discovery of the combat system has kept it fresh and exciting for me.

I’ve also begun to understand the weapon proficiencies and various systems the more I play.

SF2 Progress Update

As I mentioned before, SaGa Frontier 2 follows two characters. Wil Knights and Gustave. You start off with Gustave’s storyline, but you can soon choose some of Wil’s. Well, I focused on Gustave’s because I was enjoying the story. But I went back and played Wil’s first few entries, and have some impressions I want to share…

An early part of Wil’s scenes is exploring a pretty large dungeon with challenging combat. It immediately became clear that at least at the onset of the game, Wil is much more focused on combat. You get a bunch of party members, you explore a bunch, it’s a different pacing than Gustave’s early story.

But that isn’t to say that Wil’s scenes are devoid of plot. In particular, there’s possibly one of the most haunting scenes I’ve experienced in a game early on as you go to try to learn more about what happened to Wil’s father. When you arrive in the town of Vogelang, all of the NPCs have memories of the horrors that occurred when Wil’s father visited with a trio of brothers seeking out the Egg and what the Egg caused them to do. The villagers describe it in segments, and it’s a bit horrific and shocking. It really has me hooked and wanting to learn more about the Egg.


I’ve spent some time compiling the various English releases of the SaGa games and various fan translations that exist. It’s a little confusing as first, but I’ve got a decent grasp on it, so I’m going to make a post breaking that aspect of the series down to help others (and myself) navigate the various releases that exist.

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