Absolutely not necessary to read water margin ahead of universal videogame masterpiece the suikoden series
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@saddleblasters#11929 I haven’t played any Suikoden games because I feel like I should read Water Margin first.
Now this is the kind of media consumption Particularity I can respect
@yeso#11932, if you've read _Water Margin_, maybe you could give us a bit more of a clearer idea here. Where would Suikoden be on a scale from 1 to 10 of necessity to read the book before you play the game, if 1, not necessary in the slightest, was _Goldeneye 007_, and 10, as in, absolutely required that you read the book before you play, is _Dante's Inferno?_
It‘s a “1” on your scale. The plots and characters have nothing to do with one another. It’s a case of broad inspiration: suikoden takes the concept of 108 heroes grouping together, along with a picaresque style and anti-authoritarian posture. That being said I read water margin in college around 15 years ago so if someone knows better they can roast me on this question
loving the idea of someone reading the divine comedy to prepare for EA‘s Dante’s Inferno lol
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This conversation made me remember I was thinking how weird and funny it might be to try and adapt a novel I was reading into a videogame, that novel being Umberto Eco‘s The Name of the Rose, which is a murder mystery/detective novel set in an abbey in the 14th century, with two monks acting as stand-ins for Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson. It’s a pretty good book! It has a lot of nerds talking or arguing about nerd stuff like a bunch of nerds but the nerds are monks.
While thinking about this I looked up to see if there was some sort of definitive list of games based on novels, which seems, not totally rare, but uncommon enough that game adaptations of novels, at least not like your James Bonds or your Lord of the Rings that are rightfully more games based on the movie based on the game, seem like a bit of a, ahem, novel concept.
There were only roughly 80 entries on this list, a lot of them fairly recognizable as games that were based on movies based on novels as above. But wouldn't you know it, apparently one of the few novels that has been adapted into a videogame is _The Name of the Rose!_ It was an isometric adventure game that released under the name _La Abadía del Crimen_ (The Abbey of Crime), and had a cult following there. It was even remade in 2016 and is available on Steam for free! Huh. Sometimes you really know you have a great idea when someone else has already thought of it and done it a while back.
I saw this concept/tribute art floating around after sean connery passed away
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If only it were real. I suspect part of the problem with adapting novels rather than movies of novels into games is how internal the "action" in many novels is. We had some old threads about this a few months back. Were talking mostly about how disco elysium made some progress toward maybe synthesizing the forms
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@yeso#11942 loving the idea of someone reading the divine comedy to prepare for EA’s Dante’s Inferno lol
We ought to be able to convince at least one person how much better it would make the game, right?
Similarily, I haven't read it, but basing my assumptions off of watching that one big 2010 TV adaptation, I kind of wish I'd read _Romance of the Three Kingdoms_ before I'd played _Dynasty Warriors._ Although I suppose it was also its own experience to have played _Dynasty Warriors_ before watching _Three Kingdoms._
treating Dante‘s immaculate masterpiece of sustained poetic artistry, written in despondent exile, desperately seeking meaning in his life, and to make sense of the death of his one true love as lore for EA’s Dante's Inferno is extremely awesome
@yeso#11941 Ok, thanks! I will literally start playing Suikoden tonight then. It‘s been awhile since I’ve played a JRPG, and I might as well use the last week of this year to change that.
@Gaagaagiins#11945 What did you think of the Three Kingdoms show? I haven‘t seen it yet, but I’ve been thinking about watching it.
@yeso#11944 Well, there is La abadía del crimen, a spanish adventure game that is real!
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@saddleblasters#11929 I feel like I had this thought a million years ago when I first heard about Suikoden, and then by the time I actually read Water Margin I had completely forgotten that Suikoden existed, and now this thread is sending my memory back around in a strange manner. Like, when I first heard of Suikoden, Water Margin didn‘t actually exist in my brain as a real thing that existed, just an abstract concept of “A Chinese Book,” and now I’m hearing about Suikoden again for the first time in forever, and realizing that that Chinese book from before that barely seemed to exist is now real and exists in my head as a story that I have read.
This thought is totally meaningless but I felt the need to post it here anyway.
@Gaagaagiins#11921 there is something interesting there with a monster named Sin destroying a wealthy society and reducing it to medieval levels, and everyone self-flagellating by abandoning technology except for at the blitzball stadium. why can everyone breathe underwater it‘s never explained. ok i’m only about 5 hours in so let me report back.
@saddleblasters#11948 if you like hosono and god tier melodies the music is gonna be right up your alley!!
@tapevulture#11953 I just got to Mt. Seifu, and can definitely feel the alien/otherworldly electronic Hosono vibes.
@saddleblasters#11949 Loved it!! Haven‘t really watched any other Chinese TV so I found it a lot of fun. I watched it this year so, uh, I had a lot of free time, but I think even including that I watched 95 hour long episodes extremely quickly. It chugs along in places but I think based on what I’ve read online that may be more because they chose to stick closer to the literature than many adaptations, with mostly minor character revisions. It makes the overall story, as long and complex as it is with so many characters, easy to follow and engaging. They really knew how to lead you through all the twists and turns.
I'm always conscious of what it means to say something had "good acting" when it's in a language I don't even remotely speak or understand and have to trust the translator, but at least with that perspective, I loved a lot of the characters and I think no small part of that was due to some great, highly charismatic performances. I watched the fansub by a a seemingly defunct group called Jiang Hu, it's up on nyaa .si as well.
Only major criticisms I have of it are that the fight choreography is often goofy looking with what may be cool martial arts and stuff that is heavily obscured by lots of too-close and too short shots, which is a shame because if they had managed really slick fight scenes with lots of cool choreography it would be just about a complete an unimpeachable package. Oh, also, if you're sensitive to the idea of animals being mistreated on filmsets, unfortunately I have read (rumors at least) that the production of that show was not kind at all to a lot of the poor horses in it, and some even died. I don't remember anything outright purposefully cruel being shown but some of the stuff looks pretty damn rough for the horses, so when you watch it it's hard not to think about the rumours.
@tapevulture#11952 If you get a lot of Thoughts I say make a new post, and be sure to tag me in it!
@Gaagaagiins#11921
This is a somewhat unusual opinion, at least among "serious game likers" in my experience, but Final Fantasy X is actually my favorite Final Fantasy game. Admittedly it is almost certainly in large part due to it being the first FF I played at the right age, but I still think that it is both thematically and emotionally resonant. Also, I think Spira is one of the more interesting worlds conceived for a Final Fantasy game. I like that it draws inspiration from different sources than the usual medieval European setting and having lived in Okinawa for the last 5 and a half years I also have a new appreciation for that particular influence. The game is definitely not perfect and there are many cogent criticisms of aspects of it, but I do feel like the vitriolic dislike that it often receives from certain "old-school" FF fans is slightly unfair and that certain criticisms (i.e. anything related to Tidus supposedly being a crybaby/emo/whiner etc.) are pretty silly. Anyways, maybe we should have a FF discussion thread...
I recently started playing the first Suikoden game and so far I am enjoying it, although I'm not blown away. I really like the graphics and character designs. It's not exactly a particularly original story so far, but it does seem fairly well-told. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. I like that the pacing is snappy and the game seems to get to the point without a lot of filler content. The battle system so far seems pretty standard, but doesn't get in the way. Also, I once again enjoy that is has clear chinese influences rather than the typical European mediveal fantasy. Not that I dislike the latter, it's just very overrepresented in games.
@SU2MM#11960 Summon me and @tapevulture to a FFX thread…
I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say this thread (or the first comments in it) have made me extremely interested in playing the first two Suikoden games. 