I have done those mental gymnastics, let me see if I can articulate them. The story stuff is very much just nothing, however, that was such a small percentage of my experience with the game that it really doesn‘t affect my overall enjoyment. So I don’t think of TotK as the one with the subpar story as much as I think of it as the one with all the cool outfits to find. Not that the story was the only thing wrong with it. I just finished my playthrough yesterday and I've been thinking about making a longer post with all the stuff I liked.
I finished TotK. I‘ve been lurking on this thread and enjoying your stories. @treefroggy ’s harrowing crisis of faith was especially engaging. Even though there‘s a lot negative to say about this game, it is still a game that compels us to share our experience, I feel, and I think that’s fun.
Zelda is my favorite game series, and maybe my favorite game format if you catch my meaning. On top of that I was raised on banjo kazooie, so this new era of cleptomaniacal Zelda feels perfectly natural to me. I can very easily dump hundreds of hours into these games, although I don't think it's necessarily good for me. These Zeldas are like a big costco-hay-bale-sized bag of potato chips that I'm trying to eat for dinner. I'm endlessly reaching for more and never truly satiating my hunger.
Things I like:
This being such a high profile release, a lot of my in person friends are all playing it at the same time, so we can swap stories of our adventures in the playground tradition. It's very rare to have that experience at this point in my life and I'm glad TotK could give us that.
The exploration is really satisfying to me, in particular the caves. I like the varied interiors and level design. They're also like little grocery stores where you can get your gems, brightbloom seeds, and hearty truffles. And if I see the spears on the wall to indicate a misko treasure, I go nuts because I love finding outfits.
The outfits are the embodiment of everything I love about the game. Finding them in the caves and finding the maps in the sky to find them in the depths feels very rewarding to me. And having so many clothing options lets me role play a little bit. I'll put on something more casual in a town, my ||blue lobster shirt|| when I'm driving a boat, or the ||fierce deity set|| when fighting something tough. My favorite in the early game was the ||Cece hat||. I called it my thinking cap and would put it on while figuring out puzzles in shrines and so on.
TotK using the same map as botw feels like a nod to the second quest of Zelda 1. I enjoy exploring a place I once knew, now defamiliarized. Since I had a general idea of where things were, I could make a plan for where I wanted to go first. I like this little element of strategy so I can "play" the game when I'm not playing the game. I would make large and small goals for myself and see how well I could stick to the plan or get distracted and adjust as I go. I can see why people consider that a negative, but I saw that as an enjoyable challenge.
I won't talk too much about what I didn't like, mostly because I would just be repeating most of what everyone in here has said. I will limit myself to my biggest complaint: the sages. The dumb ghost buddies suuuuck. It's annoying to have to walk over to them to use their thing and I often activate them when I'm trying to pick stuff up. To make it worse, the cool down is too long. I assumed (wrongly) that the sage's wills would shorten the cool down, but nope! You also can't rely on them to help in combat. At least you can keep them turned off, which I did.
To wrap this up, I like the game. Slowly gaining a sense of ownership over such a huge world feels good to me. And as much as I don't like to admit it, I'm not immune to nostalgia, so all of the legacy outfits worked for me. I had fun! There was some dumb stuff, but I chilled with most of it.
“crisis of faith” 
thank you @“kyleprocrastinations”#1524 , glad the lurkers enjoy and the thread is paying off.
Unrelated to your epic post,
I don’t agree with anyone who says TotK has a better story than botw, but I do believe the main twist provides a much higher emotional peak. It’s very intense for Nintendo.
@“connrrr”#p124488 Tantalizing peek into a world where Zelda plots have political complexity lol. I’m guessing Wind Waker is the first and last time we’ll ever get a Ganon with interesting motives
Anyway I continue to be amazed at the contraptions people come up with in this game while I just ignore the vehicle building mechanics to the best of my ability
https://youtu.be/rQzrCVJ_alY
@“2501”#p124498 I had trouble with that exact boss toward the end of my playthrough and I‘m annoyed with both myself and the game that it might have been so much easier if I’d built something silly using the hydrants.
I somehow missed this or forgot about it. Pretty much completely agree with this.
https://youtu.be/XiIfnG1XTSc
I do still believe that the passing on of Iwata-san is still central to the culture of Nintendo from BotW onward, and choosing to read into symbolism and creative choices in this context can be interesting.
This [video by Zeltik](https://youtu.be/keKtBD8OPBI) explains a few things lost in translation that back up the way I feel about this game, making it seem like the developers are somewhat self aware:
Satori is the name of the creature which represents Iwata in BotW. Satori synonymous with enlightenment. Fitting, being that Satoru Iwata has moved along.
Bubbulfrogs are known as Mayoi in Japanese. Synonymous with the mindfog, failure to reach enlightenment, the antonym to satori.
The first game, botw, is airy and open, in a relaxing, freeing way. TotK is sloppy, cramped, and lost a lot of that openness with it's own convolutions. The Bubbulfrogs are a key example of this, and they are ugly, weird, and the characters associated with them are cringe turned up to eleven.
It seemed like the developers were self aware that for the enlightened philosophy behind botw is being reversed for TotK to make something wholly worldly and bespoiled by its own clutter. I think this is interesting!
So I've come full circle back to the start of the thread, celebrating Iwata, with the release of a sequel to a game made for him, and the sequel, representing the polar opposite of those foundational principles... That's how I'm choosing to read into it anyway. Kind of a corruption of the simplistic perfection of the previous game. Corruption is practically the central theme of the game after all.
So maybe my revulsion was completely intended, and the joke's on me!... They made a gross game on purpose. HA!... Doesn't make it less gross.
I'm also disappointed to find that Kol-Tin is a stand-in for Tin-Gle this time around... cause I hate koltin, and I love tingle... but that was always kind of the point of both characters. Maybe I'll come around eventually..... probably not.
Maybe Koltin's misguided obsession with Satori, wanting to become one, represents young developers wanting to become the next Iwata, but being misguided, knowing that even with several hit games, you can't come close to Iwata. I obviously enjoy the deification of Satoru Iwata. There are many guys his age who started programming on punch-cards, and ended up creating great video games, so I recognize truly he's not alone, but he does represent a generation, and he did become emblematic, and the games he made touched me personally.
Iwata-san characteristically took a pay cut, putting money aside. The bubbulfrogs represent greed and money.
Another theme of the game is reincarnation, which, depending on your beliefs, Iwata-san would be undergoing. :')
... maybe when Zelda >!eats the weird stone!<, it is representative of Iwata's stomach problems-- *just kidding*
It kind of irks me that we waited 6 years for a Zelda game that way so similar to the previous one. That is the same time between the releases of Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild.
I'm not saying Tears of the Kingdom is a bad game but it would've been nice to get one set in a new world as was tradition. This one feels too familiar which dampens the fun of exploration. I know the sky islands and the depths were added but there are so few sky islands and the depths is so bland.
It'd be nice if a new game felt new y'know
Breath of the Wild never really clicked with me, but I am absolutely loving Tears of the Kingdom. Its world feels more alive to me, and there's less down time.
I just came in here to say that the trek up into the blizzard cloud with Little Bird Boy ranks among the most genuinely thrilling video game adventures I've ever gone on. The sheer, ridiculous verticality of it! Just when you think you couldn't possibly soar any higher, there are still a few more trampoline boats swirling around. Fantastic stuff.
I've been having a lot of thoughts about this game, oscillating between the mechanical awe of its systems and the totally insufferable story, but I had to come here and say that when it straight-faced said to me:
_Long have I slumbered within Zelda's Purah Pad_
I laughed for about four minutes straight
Question for anyone who has played both games: if I adore the Zonai vehicle building in this game and want an entire game centered around building vehicles, would Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts scratch the itch? I know it was disliked for not being a 3D platformer like the first two, but would I enjoy it if I'm looking for a similar sense of satisfaction of finally building something that conquers the challenge like this game gives?
I just finished off this game. I think I was too hasty to judge it before. The ending sequence was really strong and fits right in with the mechanical and narrative themes. I probably should've gone to it as soon as it was available instead of trying to explore every last area for caves/armor.
I think if the game was more focused it would be super high on my list but the experience got lost in the open-ness of it all.
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@“HeavenlyHalberd”#p131370 Question for anyone who has played both games: if I adore the Zonai vehicle building in this game and want an entire game centered around building vehicles, would Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts scratch the itch?
The main problem you may find is that Nuts & Bolts is way less permissive with its physics.
TOTK does a lot of discrete handholding regarding the way the parts are joined together and affect the overall physics of your machine. The odds are often tilted towards the player’s goal.
On the contrary, Nuts & Bolts is almost absurdly stringent about the placement of pieces and how these affect your vehicle. I believe that No Fun Allowed attitude, clashing with the general goofiness of the world and the family-friendly expectations surrounding that IP, is what discouraged many people who had accepted the genre shift.
If you are ready to bear this kind of hassle, I think you will enjoy the game. You could also try Insert Credit’s own favorite [Panekit](https://forums.insertcredit.com/d/2148-let-me-tell-you-about-panekit).
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[URL=https://i.imgur.com/dnELIs5.jpg]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/dnELIs5.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
The Famitsu (left) and Dengeki (right) official guides for **Tears of the Kingdom** are out since September 1st. Both are unsurprisingly pretty massive considering they have to cover three times the map of the first game, as well as all the Zonai building contents. Famitsu went for the same format as their Breath of the Wild book, but over a meatier 600+ pages. Dengeki blew up their usual format in order to fit more details on their maps.
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@“beets”#p131484 I just finished off this game. I think I was too hasty to judge it before. The ending sequence was really strong and fits right in with the mechanical and narrative themes. I probably should’ve gone to it as soon as it was available instead of trying to explore every last area for caves/armor.
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I think if the game was more focused it would be super high on my list but the experience got lost in the open-ness of it all.
agreed. I booted it up last night, only to test my new controller for a couple minutes, but the game is *really cool*, and best enjoyed slowly and casually I guess. But I also really don't wanna finish the game without the armor that I want, it's a shame you have to put in hours of legwork to get it naturally, if ever.
@HeavenlyHalberd have you ever played a little game called *The Incredible Machine*?
@“◉◉maru”#p131514 I really appreciate this response. I may give it a go at some point, but it seems like the restrictive nature you're talking about seems to discourage creativity whearas the friendliness towards the player in TOTK is what lets you get so creative with the solutions. Thank you so much for reccomending Panekit, because THAT looks and sounds exactly like my dream game. A literal toxboy puzzle game? I will adore this and I cannot wait to play it.
@“treefroggy”#p131521 I have not but this looks like a really fun puzzler and I'll definitley give it a go!
I finished the main quest of tears of the kingdom and I have some thoughts. I have completed most of the games in the series with the exception of the Oracles series. I enjoyed breath of the wild.
I enjoyed the temple dungeons in totk. I liked the enhancements to the engine made to increase visuals. I would rather the game had more music. I kinda felt that way in breath of the wild too but the emptiness of that world worked better with the sparse soundtrack.
I enjoyed the various systems in the game from the fusing, to crafting zonai stuff in theory. But I will say the open ended solutions of the game are its greatest strength and also its greatest weakness. I don't know how long it would take to constrain and balance something like that.
In traversal there are all these options, but what I most often did was get as high as possible and glide/fly to the next objective.
In combat we have many options but rarely did combat dictate I do anything different than dodge/parry and 3 sword strike combo. Or Arrow with a bomb.
even though there are a few different enemy types most of them don't require any different tactics besides the Lynel and Gleeok.
Boss fights where ok and welcome.
Sidequest's where ok and kind of standard. I liked when there was some multi part quests.
I feel like not many of them where intense or serious, maybe some should have a darker moral intent.
It often felt like although Ganon is in this world there isn't anything narrative going on between you and the villain.
Maybe they should have given him some underlings with dialogue and quests.
I enjoyed the shrines puzzles but maybe they should have cut down on the repetitive ones. 152 was a bit much. I did complete all of them.
The sky islands was a good idea initally implemented well as the opener but returning to the various sky islands was a little bland except the questline to unlock the 5th sage.
The underground was very fun to explore but was a little too empty and filling it with gloom enemies was boring.
The yiga clan encounters again would have been cool but most of them didn't require additional tactics, a keese arrow or bomb arrows and done.
I liked the cutscenes unlocked by the tears and enjoyed that.
I think some sort of more linear path or smaller world could have made it more exciting.
I think the building mechanic of the Zonai devices was not completey realized outside of the teaching segments on the sky island opening. and the shrines, I wasn't given enough gameplay reasons to build them. Quite often building a bridge or using a rocket shield would solve treversal very quickly.
Also I watched the video posted earlier in the thread where a reviwer said Tears felt like it fixed all the problems of skyward sword, and I agree with that. I always felt the original skyward sword was one of the best games wrapped into a messy open world map and tedious travel and crafting. I told a friend once when he asked for my review of Skyward Sword, I said this is one of the best games I've ever played and one of the worst!
And now reading there is no planned DLC it feels like the device mechanic was very much just for sandbox play. The interview said we are done with this "world." But earlier in the year it was said that going forward this game would be the development model. So what comes next similar gameplay with a different game world and storyline? Maybe move Hyrule forward into a more industrial age with Zonai technology?
Thanks
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@“Punchmaniacs”#p132114 Maybe they should have given him some underlings with dialogue and quests.
Your whole post lines up with my feelings pretty exactly, though I'd done about 50% of what you had, along with getting 100% of the tears memories.
But this thing you said, I hadn't thought of, but is very true. Seeing the tear cutscenes of >!ganon's army of mohawk ass gerudo women!< really sparks the imagination, but an example of these cutscenes showing you more interesting stuff than the game has for real. I dunno if anything like that ever shows up though. The new afro shield surfing lady was neat. In contrast, looking at something like Majora's Mask, which reused characters and flipped many of them on their heads, like the Gerudo Granny Twins Kotake and Koume (names may be wrong). In Majora's Mask it felt like character flips like that were a. excused by the parallel universe, b. their character, motives, and *emotions* were clearly written, and c. those emotions were often fully and deeply explored and delivered on.
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@“Punchmaniacs”#p132114 In traversal there are all these options, but what I most often did was get as high as possible and glide/fly to the next objective.
100%, and I think it may have been less efficient in a lot of cases but I still did it every time.
@"treefroggy"#p132125 my favourite was taking one-note characters like the cucco lady and spinning them into characters like Anju with engrossing emotional multi-day arcs. Some characters weren't flipped at all at first blush, like the [phonogram man](https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Phonogram_Man) who was already holding a grudge behind a cheerful veneer in Hyrule but then in Termina as Guru-Guru becomes even more consumed by a bottled-up bitterness, this time masking his guilt.
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but an example of these cutscenes showing you more interesting stuff than the game has for real.
For real, they felt like trailers for something cool that was supposed to happen. They didn't build up anything besides my expectations. The Ganondorf fight in retrospect had a kind of cool Dark Link vibe to it and in a sense his complete lack of depth as a mirror held up to the series' blandest Link is thematically appropriate.