Television Thread (NO ANIME ALLOWED)

The hyperbolic praise around Andor initially turned me off because I read into the hyperbole a reaction against other Star Wars films and shows, particularly those that dare have multiple POC in their main cast or dare be merely OK. But on my brother-in-law’s insistence, I tried season 1 and really enjoyed it. For season 2, I basically watched the episode 1 one night, 2-3 a few nights later, and then 4-9 over the last two days. Again, I’m really liking it.

I literally said, “You don’t have to be a Star Wars fan to like it” to my partner even though I am a Star Wars fan. To explain that a bit, I think the show does a good job at depicting characters in a way you don’t need the lore to grasp. The idea that the Empire is encroaching on people’s civil liberties little by little, that Cassian struggles to reconcile his avoidance of conflict with a need to do something, that Senator Mothma has to give away everything she holds dear bit by bit to covertly support the Rebellion, that Luthien has chosen the lonely path of war, that Syril has a dogged sense of order and thus has to chase down the one who got away, that Dedra absolutely would pull the trigger on a destructive plan - all of that makes sense even if you don’t know the pre-Battle of Yavin timeline this series is moving through. The characters really are the heart of the series.

It’s hard to delve into character details because the show delivers so much in background or snippets. I don’t know when I’m spoiling something and for whom it’s a spoiler. But to develop one thread: season 1 shows how Cassian Andor is a migrant - his own home devastated by exploitative mining, he lived with other kids until being taken in by adoptive parents who worked as scavengers. His modus operandi at the start of the series is survival - he steals ship parts. It takes a couple of false starts (being recruited and working a mission only to see how fucked up it was and running away, then being imprisoned and almost running away again only to return for his adoptive mother’s funeral) to move him from avoiding conflict to being a resistance fighter. It’s hard to say how the show does that development well, and plot summary doesn’t really do it justice. The character writing works to flesh out who he is growing into.

Also, the show has gravitas. We’re so conditioned to meme specific moments in the films and shows that it can feel hard to come back to the original trilogy and sit with how menacing Grand Moff Tarkin is, how an entire planet and all its people are destroyed, how Luke sees his guardians’ smouldering, charred bones, how Han’s readiness to shoot Greedo says a lot about what he’s running from. Andor has a lot of memetic moments - the prison escape (“one way out”), the Chandrilan wedding dance (where Mon Mothma loses herself in dancing), Luthien cutting apart TIE Fighters with his ship, and lots more. But beneath the memes are effective emotional moments. I’ve watched the end of season 2 episode 3 (the dance) multiple times now thinking about how that scene works. In a pre-internet age, we could perhaps better separate the post hoc memetic reception of these moments and the in-the-moment watching of them. Now, I just hope that the emotional resonance comes through for those who give it a chance after seeing the meme first.

I guess that sums up my response to the hyperbole too. Yes, shows have been written that juxtapose two scenes effectively before, that write effective speeches into their scenes, that show antagonists in a sympathetic light. But I hope that doesn’t take away from the fact that Andor still does it well!

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The show is really good, and you probably don’t see memes about it or hear about it on twitter because it’s the rare modern prestige TV that’s not actually written that way. It’s extremely dense, which is mostly a good thing but does make it difficult to track everything at times. There are incredible, sweeping monologues, but they don’t get memed because they require an understanding of the context in which they were given, and they forgo quips and one liners for what feels like real writing compared to the rest of the landscape.

Compare it to something like White Lotus - of course you hear about the characters on that show, the show is written to be consumed on twitter. You can get the whole thing just by hearing 3 or 4 phrases a week. Unfortunately, that’s what the prestige TV landscape has devolved into though. Andor is different

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Yea I have to say that all of the praise around the first season really gave a lot of “baby’s first ‘’‘prestige’‘’ TV show” vibes, so I’ve been turned off by it. It felt similar to a lot of talk around The Boys - a show so abhorrent I still get the desire to wash my entire body in [whatever they use to clean oil spills off ducks] when it comes up in conversation years later

Most of the talk I’ve seen about the second season hasn’t been so laudatory, mostly that it’s evidence that Disney is “the everything brand” and wants to feed you every aspect of your life, even down to the revolutionary language you might employ to rebel against a megacorporation like Disney

That being said, I have not seen the show and I’d probably like it. I liked Rogue One and love Diego Luna

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It’s a pretty good show as far as it goes. Like good Star Trek TNG level of sophistication but more cinematic. The positive qualities can be detached from emotionally labile nerd hyperbole

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I think people, not just Star Wars nerds, are also just pretty starved at this point. The shows that we’re supposed to care about are extremely tiresome. The Last of Us is the big show to care about if it’s not Andor, and Andor is blatantly a million times better and more interesting than that show.

Other than that it’s what, White Lotus, The Bear, Severance? Those shows are all just a drag at this point. I know there are good shows out there for sophisticates to enjoy, but in terms of shows that are something akin to the cultural zeitgeist at this point that’s about it. People went crazy for that Fallout show because it at least felt a little interesting (I watched the pilot and it was fine).

I guess another example of something in the Andor tier to me would be Shogun. Something on a large budget that doesn’t feel like a chore to watch.

And as I argue for Andor being the best show on TV, I will disclose that yes I am a big Star Wars guy, yes I have watched almost all of the great shows you’re supposed to have watched, yes I mostly hate the experience of watching television at this point, yes I read books and do other things for a balanced media diet as well

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i am watching the AD tour now bc of this

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Weirdly enough the only thing so far that has been anything remotely convincing to watch Andor is @yeso 's only lightly qualified praise

Probably still won’t any time soon though

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It feels like a billion dollar TV show, which is pretty neat by itself! The production design is tip-top.

Outstanding monologues.

I like that it’s working a few different angles at once, we’re getting the Imperial “bean counter” POV vs. a very messy Rebellion side that doesn’t always do the clean right Hero Thing. It’s a very tense show, they do a really nice job establishing stakes and paying them off. Nary a lit-up lightsaber in the entire enterprise up to this point. It’s a good “human scale” story told in a setting that usually has space wizards in it. Very Gundam 08th MS Team kinda flavor that I like a lot, taking that established world and stripping it down to essentials.

I think it’s been a great ride watching it as it comes out, three episodes every Tuesday. I think if I rewatch it I’ll replicate that schedule.

I did not like the Rogue One movie very much when I first saw it. I like it a little better now.

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Well, that were two stupid years well spent.

WBD announced Wednesday that it was changing the name of Max back to HBO Max, the name it ditched in 2023. This is the fifth name for HBO’s streaming service in the past 11 years: HBO Go, HBO Now, HBO Max, Max and, once again, HBO Max.

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ditching the part of your name with the most brand recognition only to realize what everyone realized two years ago>>>>>

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i thought andor was where the little guys lived but it sounds like it’s a man

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I was going to jokingly “um, actually” you about how the Ewoks don’t live on Endor either, because Endor is actually a gas giant and the planet from Return of the Jedi is its forest moon. But now I’m looking it up and Endor actually is the moon? And the gas giant it orbits is called Tana? But they’ve always called it “The forest moon OF Endor.” I always thought that meant Endor was the name of the planet it was the moon of. Star Wars sucks

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I’m just glad you looked it up beforehand to save yourself the embarrassment

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they say ‘in the city, city of compton’ in california love so I guess that checks out

-posted from the planet of earth

Sure, but if you go to the Wikipedia page for any moon in our solar system like, say, Deimos or Phobos (I definitely know the name of moons that weren’t in Doom but I don’t have to prove it to any of you) many of them will be described in the first paragraph as “a moon (or satellite) of (planet it orbits)”

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I’ve been following Nathan Fielder’s work since I saw the Dumb Starbucks story happen in the news in real time, and way before I knew hardly anything about autism or had any notion I could be autistic, I found his character deeply relatable as I also felt like this “outsider” trying desperately to understand and blend in with other humans. It was pretty surreal seeing Nathan directly address this in the newest episode of The Rehearsal. On one hand, I felt seen and I think Nathan leaning into people speculating if he’s autistic was done in a very funny way, and I think it was really sweet he used his airport set the way he did, but on the other hand, it feels icky CARD and Doreen Granpeesheh were spotlighted without pointing out the sketchiness of them. If you just watched the episode (and I wasn’t familiar with them until I looked them up after), they came off well, bur if you look them up, Granpeesheh has been in an anti-vaccine documentary, is a big proponent of ABA therapy, and she also did some documentary about and has claimed that autism can be “recovered” from and it’s pretty disheartening to have her and CARD featured.

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Everybody is gonna hate me but I was watching andor season 2 - I saw 3 or 4 episodes - and then I just forgot about it? I rembered it just now. It is really not leaving much of an impression aside from the super bizarrely aggressive constant focus pulling/extreme depth of field. Everybody seemed to love it by this point, so I’m once again feeling like maybe I’m an alien.