The subtle joy of making lists

@compositehiggs#13392 Try to think about it like jazz or any other improvisational thing. It‘s not a compromise or an oath, you can just delete the whole thing once you are finished! If you are on a physical format it’s as easy as using a pencil + eraser or just rip off the page and throw it to the trash can in one of those casual basketball moments.

@saddleblasters#13394 I will! But it's probably going to be A Big Post so I'm gonna have to take my time lol

@JoJoestar#13397 Great advice!

I'm 90% sure that if I had a more normal relationship with lists I wouldn't struggle so hard to accomplish things.

@compositehiggs#13392 I hear you. This might not be the same flavor of dread, but the list I posted above gives me a certain amount of anxiety because it tells me exactly how much of my finite lifespan I could have spent doing something “productive”!

But I like doing it anyway ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

@MichaelDMcGrath#13309 man this is very off topic but would you give me some tips on how to get good at shmups? i love them but also kinda suck at them

to everyone interested i highly recommend the site great place to make lists. you can also write reviews and have chats with a nice little community.

Here's my favorite games of all time :) (lots of stuff I gotta replay to make sure they fit there, mostly shadow of the colossus and banjo kazooie I think)

@fugazi57#13478 following this post, it's painful to start r type final on “human” difficulty, then drop it to “kids”, then drop it to “baby”

baby is rock bottom. there's nothing lower than baby


There are two main types of bullets in shmups, aimed bullets and set patterns. The set patterns you unfortunately kind of just have to learn. The aimed bullets though can be kited wherever you want, and they're usually the main bullet type, so staying as close to the center of the screen, about a third of the way from the bottom, and making little taps to the side to avoid them and looking for a hole to quickly move back to the center is a real common strategy. If you make large sweeping movements to the edge of the screen to avoid aimed bullets, they'll corner you and you'll have less space to dodge. You want to be fighting for the center whenever possible.

Another strategy in some games is to try to point blank big threats. You'll usually do more damage up close (if the shmup only allows x bullets from your ship on screen at a time then you can shoot faster if those bullets hit their target faster) and you'll sometimes be able to "bullet seal" that threat as most shmups prevent enemies from shooting at you if you're too close to them (not all shmups do this, and ones that do don't do it for every enemy so you'll have to experiment).

As a general rule, the faster the bullets are, the higher on the screen you want to be looking.

Outside that I'd say that even superplayers are bad at games they haven't played before. The biggest piece of advice I can give is to make your own fun as you practice. Try to beat your own scores, try to give yourself challenges, etc. The longer you play a particular shmup the more you will be able to know where you want to be when, and a lot of that knowledge doesn't transfer, so making practice fun is the best way to improve.

@fugazi57#13478 To add a bit to what @MichaelDMcGrath#13482 said, memorization is a big part of shmups. It‘s good to focus on just one game you like, not necessarily cause it’s easy (although something insanely hard probably isn‘t the best idea!) but because you like the music, the art or the way the game feels. Don’t be afraid to use save states if a particular part is giving you trouble, or check out long plays and high score runs to see how people deal with certain parts or what combo of power ups is most effective.

I will offer you a piece of advice useful ONLY for Cave shooters and a couple more that use the same formula:

Unless you are dodging a specific bullet pattern, when you are facing regular fodder enemies you generally want to move through the screen doing an infinite symbol pattern like this:

There are of course exceptions but playing following this shape will help you trigger the targeted projectile waves in a predictable way that will help you dodging a lot better.

EDIT: Hey, this turned into A LIST of advices, how neat!

Look I make a lot of lists

some very epic like my grocery list:


—kimchi ( I make it from scratch but once a year and then when I run out I’m lazy)

—potato salad

—soy Italian sausage (to add to potato salad)

but I wasn't going to post any epic lists here at all until someone ask Me to

" list gameboy ((not color) games for a starter pack for someone who has never owned a video game console before. Minus the obvious Pokémon gen1+2, super Mario land 1+2, and tetris."
I’ve curated specifically gameboy selections for non gamers before so I have this down pat here goes here's what I think is the quintessential *starter pack:*

somewhat in order of importance:

  • - Kirby's Dream Land, accessible action platformer even if they suck at games
  • - Cat Trap
  • - Wario Land II, but also 1
  • - Link's Awakening
  • - Dragon Quest 1, or Dragon Quest Monsters....
  • - Dr.Mario or better yet,
  • - Yoshi's Cookie
  • - Gameboy Camera
  • - Game & Watch Gallery (2 is my personal favorite, the selection of games is most engaging)
  • - Nemesis
  • - Beatmania GB (only import on this list)
  • - Pokemon Trading Card Game
  • - Tamagotchi
  • - Bomberman Pocket Adventure
  • - World Beach Volley
  • - Mario's Picross
  • - Some licensed game of a property they like, like Tom & Jerry, Power Puff Girls, Spongebob, Bugs Bunny... These are most terrible games but even if you only play them for 2 minutes it's fun/funny.
  • These games will have their GB singin', also they are all approachable by someone who has very little gaming experience. These are the games I cut my teeth on, growing up in the mid 90's I had just a game boy.

    For many of those I had a sentence written, but erased it because the games are too epic. Let that non-description sink in.

    here's a second list of games that I _didn’t _include because they're too eclectic and powerful and I wouldn't give them to just anybody nowadays:
    Metroid II, Alleyway, Harvest Moon GB, Survival Kids, Legend of the River King, Final Fantasy Adventure, Gargoyle's Quest, Kid Dracula, Mole Mania, Magical Chase GB, Super RC Pro-Am, Trip World, X, Heiankyo Alien, the Mega Man games, Bionic Commando, Final Fantasy Legend series, Parodius, Ducktales 1 & 2

    @treefroggy#13518 Is it hard to make homemade kimchi? I wouldn't mind trying if you feel like sharing the recipe…

    I like your GB list a lot! Having the gameboy camera there is galactic brains level of good taste. As someone who is playing Gargoyle's Quest for the first time right now I would totally add it to the main list! At least speaking from the couple of hours I've put into it so far. Super Mario Land 3 (original Wario Land) is probably not only my favorite game for the original GameBoy but the Nintendo platformer I like the most, along with the first two Yoshi's Islands.

    How do you feel about Ninja Gaiden Shadow? That's another one I would add. I honestly like it more than the NES games.

    Would you mind doing the same for the GameBoy Color? I feel like I would get a good amount of cool recommendations out of that!

    @JoJoestar#13543 Well I wouldn‘t recommend Gargoyle’s Quest for a non-gamer who has never owned a console before. Remember that was a starter pack for someone.

    I was given gameboy camera on a road trip as a kid and it changed my life forever. I taught myself music, and it culminated to an obsession with Hip Tanaka through my 20's. Eventually I met the dude after one of his underground performances.

    You want more? A gameboy color list for the goers of this forum? The Gameboy color-only library is much smaller than the gameboy library. Those recommends were just a must play list for someone new to gameboy. A list for anyone here would include all the most ecclectic stuff.
    Off top I recommend all the Beatmania and Pop'n Music Gb games.
    Shiren the Wanderer - games aren't translated yet but they're so good on gameboy.
    Densha de Go! 2 - has largest ROM size and contains full motion video and anime graphics.
    Chee Chai Alien - one of the last non-pokemon games by Creatures
    Pokemon Trading Card Game 2 GR - fully translated
    Wetrix GB - a total mess but I like Wetrix so...
    Hanasaka Tenshi Tenten-kun
    Hello Kitty Magical Museum
    Insect Doctor
    Little Magic
    Monster Rancher Battle Card - one of the most poorly translated games I had as a kid. I did a stream a few years ago where I figured it out, felt really good.
    Wizardry - my favorite versions of wizardry are on GBC
    Nushi Tsuri Adventure - Legend of the River King but with even more jrpg flare. Fully translated
    Totsugeki! Papparatai

    Maangchi might be the best Korean YT cooking channel as far as having good recipes that are not a problem for doing at home that I’ve come across

    don't have experience making kimchi but do wrt to pickled/fermented polish food and the main problem I have encountered is everyone resenting my huge jar of moldy rye flour standing for two weeks on the windowsill

    Enter the Surströming, world‘s stinkiest edible food, which apparently smells so bad most people puke before tasting it. Unless they don’t in which case is apparently quite delicious!

    Can vouch for mengchi, been watching her since I started making kimchi in 2014, I learned from her ““traditional kimchi” recipe and used to rewatch it every time but now I have it down pat. Also rather than use fish products I inoculate the batch with my own probiotics. :wink:

    @treefroggy#13546 Well then let me commend you because that‘s a great list of Good Videogames, newbies or not! Thanks for the GBC list too, I’m curating a romset right now for emulation purposes (which is why I asked) and actually it helps. I'm all in for more epic lists if you feel like making them.

    This past December some spanish magazines contacted me to help them with the whole game of the year shenanigans. I decided making a list of stuff that needed to be considered was the best approach and it ended separated in three categories, the games I had already played, the games I hadn't played yet and the ones that were obvious.


    Regarding the top of the lists, I think it‘s very reassuring since it serves to order your thoughts and organize yourself, although my main problem is keeping at it since I have very bad memory. In that sense, several apps in here like LB or Backloggd (or similar ones, in fact) served me really well to make me focus in my thoughts, goals or ideas, so I can understand the main idea of the topic. My main use is to really organize my thoughts whenever I’m stuck or restless -which happens more than I can reckon-, so yeah, doing this really sets my thing into something and calms me. The thing is, I tend to bite more than I can chew, so a list or an scheme helps me, and whenever I'm too stuck with things I tend to even do some automatic writing or use my mobile phone and record whenever comes into my mind. For someone whose thoughts get dispersed, materializing them into written or audio format is like molding clay, to give an example.

    @JoJoestar#13583 Yakuza Like a Dragon is quite nice. I'll coment more once I finish it, but so far it's a well-rounded experience with some flaws and some polishing to do. I have several pending games out there (unfortunately the one I want the most is on Switch), but your list made me remember I wanted to replay a game, make a review about it and post it somewhere.




    thanks a lot everybody :D

    I‘ve been going through a list heavy period through my life and apparently it showed. I shared the list on the OP on my Twitter and that prompted a friend to invite me to a thing he’s doing in which he's trying to pick the best games of Sega third games and this is what I sent him.

  • 1. Outrun 2 (XBLA)
  • 2. Bayonetta (Multi).
  • 3. Persona 4 Golden (Vita/PC).
  • 4. REZ (XBLA/VR).
  • 5. Yakuza 4 (PS3/PS4).
  • 6. SEGA AGES collection (PS2/3DS/Switch). Rieko Kodama RULES.
  • 7. After Burner Climax (XBLA).
  • 8. 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim (PS4).
  • 9. Valkyria Chronicles (Multi).
  • 10. Virtual-On: Oratorio Tangram (XBLA).
  • Honor mentions:

    Sonic Mania (Multi)
    Daytona USA (XBLA/PS3)
    Sega Rally (2007, PS360)
    Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir (PS4/Vita)
    Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown (PS360)
    Judgement (PS4)
    Skies of Arcadia Legends (GC)
    Alien Isolation (Multi)
    Mega Drive Mini (Hardware)
    Catherine (Multi)

    My general criteria was trying to balance what I think are the best games period, with how authentically "SEGA" they feel. In that sense, although there could be some argument concerning between which of the top games is actually the best game in general terms, Outrun 2 is nevertheless a masterpiece, but also the one that represents Sega and its legacy, style and tradition better.