Someone describes the pathological urge I struggle against to keep a playthrough “pure” from start to finish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMLN8HEO8k8
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@“Samograj”#p66466 What i don’t understand is keeping pride from somebody if it doesn’t affect you directly, i say: let them have fun.
> If people can have sudoku chempionship, chess chempionship and hot dog eating competition why not have the same for videogames?
I think as well the biggest misstep in the git gud logic is not just that it doesn't really effect anyone else, but also that it seems to force the assumption that that means you want them to make the game **too easy,** rather than what you're actually saying which is that you want everyone to be able to have **control over the difficulty.**
It's true that smashing through bosses in _Dark Souls_ and _Elden Ring_ like they are nothing would not make a very fulfilling gameplay experience. I mean, it's fun in isolation when you're doing it on purpose because you're in a low level area after you've become super strong, but it would not sustain the whole gameplay experience.
However, the "git gud" mentality seems to assume that people who would appreciate being able to play _Dark Souls_ or other games if only they were less difficult would not be smart enough to figure that out, and that they would kill bosses in 1 hit and then complain that the game is boring. In opposition to that attitude, I think being able to freely adjust difficult also means that we should just trust people to adjust those settings to values where they are getting the same feelings of tension and struggle as anyone else, too. In fact I would go so far as to say that that's exactly what everyone does in games where difficulty adjustment already exists, no one is looking for a totally frictionless experience all of the time. Adjusting difficulty in games is **not** about removing tension and fulfillment, it's about reducing frustration, repetition, and not being able to progress.
Noah does get into some of that and I think if he were here to comment he'd agree, but I think the one oversight in his arguments with regards to this is just how much videogame literacy is required to even get to the point where you are anything but totally mystified and alienated by the mechanical experience of _Dark Souls._ I totally agree with Noah that I also think many more people than they think would be fascinated by _Dark Souls_ if they both completely ignore what the games' reputations say about how they are "supposed" to be played, and could persevere and sink a lot of time into it like they did. However I guess what I also think is that for the latter issue of players just being able to get to the point where the experience is anything but alienating misery, being able to move some sliders to adjust how much damage enemies do or how much health they have wouldn't discourage anyone from also figuring out all of the ways to approach difficulty within the game on its default settings as well. Not to mention, even if I don't think there would be anything wrong in playing these games with difficulty adjusted, I imagine anyone who would become engrossed enough in difficulty-adjusted _Dark Souls_ to beat it, would probably at least be curious enough to want to play it at default difficulty in NG+ or in a subsequent playthrough.
@“Gaagaagiins”#p66494
### **I think that “git gud” mentality is not even real.**
OK, since i have now your attention let me explain, i have looked at many different social media sites and it's not really present anywehere (i think that's important to say i don't use them usually, so i were looking at bad (good?) parts of internet i might be wrong), so i think that it does not work at a personal level, between users there is very little interaction and usually it's a helpfull one (I mean come on, if you will respond to post 1 out of 163 might as well write something worthwhile).
What i think we are dealing with here are **memes** (i didn't thought that MGS anecdote whould be usefull, but here we are), **memes of difficulty**, **dangerous memes** that shape the mind itself to make it intimidated with game.
Even in marketing Dark Souls is shown as a intimidating game _"Prepare to Die Edition"_, _"This is Dark Souls"_ ect.
Dark Souls is a very popular series, if you ask someone on street they might know it, do the same with Devil May Cry and _they will propably think this is name of some music band._
The real git gud problem may (I think) be real between internet users and people that are internet personality of some kind, they are at risk and that's the source of problem, i think that's why the journalist texts about this topic are made, they are the ones receving messeges about their lack of skill, nobody cares that i can't beat some video game, if i had the attention of not only this forum (since i assume everyone fell for my trap at the start) but readers of big news site, they might care, i mean journalist is one kind of authority.
That's how i'm back to video and entering a epilogue of my odyssey into world of video game difficulty (oh how i wish at the end of writing this post i got a dog that was waiting for me 20 years), Noah wasn't expected to win, he thought winning wasn't even possible, he was infected with **memes**, when he became victorius he was still in their possession, he was thinking of himself not a winner, but a cheater, like with Ornstein and Smough he cheated himself out of satisfaction, right?
No, he won. He used everything he could to win, but never used any hacks, even his exploits were only situactional ones, not duplicating items.
But you look at the internet and see people doing _"funny " harcore challenge:_
-Beat Dark Souls using dance pad
-Beat Dark Souls without geting hit
-Beat Dark Souls using only brokensword
-Beat Dark Souls using Donkey Kong (tm) bongos
His struggle should make him happy **but at the end it was the memes that laughed** .
Drop the curtain
the internet commotion surrounding a game (or its lingering residue) is distinct from the game itself sure. I personally think the souls games do provoke a “get good” posture to the player though, primarily by making enemies about as visually intimidating as any ever presented in the medium, and also by superimposing
### YOU DIED
on the screen for a half dozen games over the last decade. So the implication is obvious and deliberate IMO. And I think it's somewhat at odds with the more covert meaning of the games's thematic treatment of death, endurance, and repetitive cycles of dying.
If the games are as completely above and clear of #gamer shit, then they could consider dropping
### YOU DIED
at some point, right? Unless someone can account for that I'd be curious to read someone's hypothesis
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@“Samograj”#p66503 i have looked at many different social media sites and it’s not really present anywehere (i think that’s important to say i don’t use them usually, so i were looking at bad (good?) parts of internet i might be wrong),
Oh, I can only feel envy at the idea of not having to see this. Trust me though, it's definitely out there.
At least more recently as well it has come to be less omnipresent, but for stuff like articles being posted publicly somewhere, even if it's just tangentially related to the difficulty of a From Soft game, it will not be hard to find. I don't think you need a Facebook account to [see this](https://www.facebook.com/polygon/posts/5314474858565099), but if you do, it's a Facebook post from the official Polygon page linking an article about rune farming in _Elden Ring,_ and the git gud types are definitely in there. They also crawl out of the woodwork on Twitter if anyone with a large enough following says anything about From Soft games and Accessibility. I was passing time the week of the game's release on Twitter arguing with these chumps.
Although, I think part of what you're getting at is definitely fair to say, though. It is a force that's largely happening online, as in, on public platforms, and largely between strangers. In fact, my early experiences with getting into _Dark Souls_ were because friends of mine liked _Dark Souls,_ and personally opposed the "git gud" meme to me, enough so that I gave them a try and ended up hooked as so many others do.
However, I do think that even though the git gd mentality is ultimately still just an unconvincing illusion for making the person who perpetuates it feel better about themselves ~~ justlike a lot of things petulant right wing men talk about online~~
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@“Samograj”#p66503 Noah wasn’t expected to win, he thought winning wasn’t even possible, he was infected with memes, when he became victorius he was still in their possession, he was thinking of himself not a winner, but a cheater, like with Ornstein and Smough he cheated himself out of satisfaction, right?
No, he won. He used everything he could to win, but never used any hacks, even his exploits were only situactional ones, not duplicating items.
My interpretation of the thrust of Noah's essay was exactly this overall sentiment! I thought what he was mostly saying was that he was struck by how wrong the memes were and how much he realized they could be totally disregarded about the level of satisfaction he could get from ways to play the game in a way that, to the "git gud" mentality, was undermining the game's intent, but in fact, that the game's intent was simply wider than the memes lead us to believe.
...well, with the exception of their first victory over Ornstein and Smough, I do remember they said that was not satisfying. But that in particular was not because they felt they undermined the game's intent by summoning someone, but because totally by chance the co-operator they summoned was so good their participation in the fight at all was moot. They also acknowledged that they could see how someone else might appreciate that kind of assistance in that context as well, and that they actually totally by chance summoned that exact same player in a different fight and felt thrilled by their hypercompetent assistance.
Look Bandai Namco‘s marketing, everything from social media posts to in-game achievements, leans into the YOU DIED GET GOOD stuff. Some of it is tongue in cheek, sure, but I can’t look at any of that and conclude that it isn't catering to the loud crowd that champions stupid stuff like that.
Yes it was most thematically coherent in demons (and BB and sekiro)
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@“Syzygy”#p66522 It was maintained going forward for the same reason Pokemon still has most of the cruft and details of gen 1: branding
right, so the seeds of "get good" - although the blame for that lies mostly with internet people ruining everything
@“Funbil”#p65746 this prompted me to finally play Bomberman ‘94 for the first time (I had played loads of the DOS port of Bomberman ’93 as a kid), and, well… I was very impressed by the boxing bunny you encounter 5 seconds into the game. So now I have a new profile pic.
~(Pull up the curtain, but just a little bit)
@"Gaagaagiins"#p66511
I think you have misunderstod what i said later:
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[…] i think that it does not work at a personal level, between users there is very little interaction and usually it’s a helpfull one[…]
The real git gud problem may be real between internet users and people that are internet personality of some kind.
That's why i don't think that's any real git gud mentality hovering above whole gaming, but only effecting people with coverage to get anything back directed at them. I looked at article you have posted and there were around 6-10 comments out of over 100, most had 0 likes.
**People in the age of global comunnication** can, and i think **are**, affected by **almost mass hysteria** about internet users and i think that's **a big problem**.
Even in my last sentence i made up group of people to prove... what exacly?
_Who are these people that i talk about?_ _Did that mass hysteria even ever happend in real life?_
_Did you really misunderstood me, or i am just thinking you did?_
Antagonism of people all over the world is not good.
Making assumptions without any proof about opposition only makes more you (not you directly i'm talking hypothetically) hate them more.
making the person who perpetuates it feel better about themselves ~~justlike a lot of things petulant right wing men talk about online~~
### Git gud doesn't even needs to be real to be a problem.
**It's a ilussion of victim's weakness, not perpetor's power.**
**Perpetor is the victim.**
**That's the meme, assuming that how you play is judged by others.**
Victim even is thinking that they deseve punishment, that the way how they play is not making them "git gud". (Like Noah did).
I think that "git gud" is a phenomenon, or a mass hysteria as jokingly called it.
mysterious beginning=>first journalist articles=> more and more internet coverage => big problem and heated discussion (not unlike this one); _is my propably wrong theory_
@"yeso"#p66505
Besides what @"Syzygy"#p66522 said (not that i whould be smart enough to talk about what he did) it's also part of video game lingo.
I mean is
## YOU DIED
different from [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/mmfAGnY.jpeg]
or any of many simmiliar versions of that screen?
i‘m not sure if this exactly a video essay, but it’s the content i crave:
https://youtu.be/t_rzYnXEQlE
Great walk through the history of different arts and sciences across cultures that would eventually culminate in the production of film
https://youtu.be/UzXBmhzOI5g
part 5 of 5 of the gamefan series came out.
https://youtu.be/4wBcmUYZdVY
a pretty interesting watch.
@“Funbil”#p66646 Are the authors of this video curators for Mubi? Confused/intrigued by the promotion in the video description.
@“2501”#p66976 I‘m honestly not sure - I don’t keep super close tabs on these guys, but I think they‘ve also done some sponsorships with Criterion in the past? I remember when Audible sponsorships were the big thing, a lot of creators would recommend a specific book as a more direct call-to-action than just being like “go browse the offerings on the website.” The description reads more like one of those than any particular affiliation to me, but I’m just kind of assuming here
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@“Samograj”#p66607 mysterious beginning=>first journalist articles=> more and more internet coverage => big problem and heated discussion (not unlike this one); is my propably wrong theory
I got sidetracked for reasons that may be obvious based on that other post you may have seen, but if there's one major thing I'd like to put out there, it's that I hope this discussion isn't heated for you in like, a stressful way!! If I type a lot it's generally because I'm enjoying myself and I hope that's the case for you as well.
So I definitely also wholeheartedly identify with statements like:
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Making assumptions without any proof about opposition only makes more you (not you directly i’m talking hypothetically) hate them more.
If you will permit me to make an assumption about your overall position, one I hope is a constructive one that will communicate how much I agree, but perhaps we are both trying to essentially communicate just how opposed we are to elitism and antagonism and unhealthy social environments. It might even be too much to say we disagree, and perhaps are just coming at this topic from very different perspectives. Calling "git gud" a mass hysteria is a statement I can agree with in the sense that it is a stupid and pointless pressure to exert out into the world, and is based on nothing whatsoever. And it's at that point I guess I start asking the question of whether a mass hysteria is something "real" or "unreal," and, so, maybe it's at that point that it becomes semantics or perspective.
At any rate, I certainly have a lot of contempt for elitism in general, that's for sure. I'll talk about how much I dislike elitists all damn day.
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@“Gaagaagiins”#p67121 At any rate, I certainly have a lot of contempt for elitism in general, that’s for sure. I’ll talk about how much I dislike elitists all damn day.
everything is that dirty son of a bitch Confucius' fault
that stupid fucker and his selfish shitty ideas
Get intimate with sea stars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ20KsgVeu0
Been following Hazel since the algorithm actually worked and recommended them to me a while back. Their newest video makes me nostalgic not for the topic (it‘s a pretty forgettable doujin anime), but my history of losing hours to hunting down information on obscure ass releases in a language I can’t read proficiently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yyD7G5SUs
Also, not really an "essay" channel but if you aren't subbed to [GTV](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmpaIXvID-FsN5xsUNolYAw) and you're here, you might want to check it out.
Both channels generally put out longer form videos that you can put on and chill to after work. GTV's latest video is on Cosmic Fantasy, but I'd also recommend his Phantasy Star entries or practically anything else.
ever get the feeling you're in the truman show?
https://youtu.be/n8S_R-9iRsk
I never played Xenoblade Chronicles X or even listened to its music so I didn‘t think I’d care much about this video, but the soundtrack's naming convention is so strange that I found myself deeply fascinated with this guy piecing it all together
https://youtu.be/hXyKQzWBbwU