Nobody has ever made a truly hilarious video game.
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Some of the most timeless and / or influential stories have plots that are, at the end of the day, inconsequential, despite what all of the insufferable pedants whining about plot holes and the like have convinced themselves. Plot is more or less just the bones of a narrative, and while individual events along it may work for the better or the worse in service of that narrative (and of course, FFVII itself has one of the most famous video game plot points ever), they often are of secondary importance
Like you said, FFVII is not really about its plot (not even that singular, crystallized plot point that beats so fervently in the emotional heart of its narrative). It’s the totality of it that sticks so strongly with so many of us all these years later (coming up on 30!)
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The vast majority of video game storytelling falls into this category for me. Video games are unique in their interactivity and the ability of the player to influence their tone and pace, and the vast majority of video games don’t take advantage of this to convey the narrative in an interesting way.
Usually the player’s influence does a lot to break the narrative structure and pacing, and is the root cause of video game writing to be “bad”.
And is it still the popular opinion that FF7 is the best one? I feel like the public opinion has shifted to “FF7 is the most popular or influential but the actual best FF is…”
And FWIW I whole heartedly think FF7 is the best one but never say it cause I’m afraid of people thinking I’m a normie.
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I’m not entirely sure I remember a time where FFVII was widely considered the best one, to be honest. That has always been FFVI in my experience
Personally, I think VII is a perfectly fine contender for “the best one,” though (even if it’s not my personal pick). It has all the qualities that make a Final Fantasy a great one (a compelling narrative, believable and memorable characters, a strong sense of drama both between characters and between characters and the plot, and interesting advancement systems). FFVII also seems to become better with age, as its myriad layers reveal themselves as one gains the insights of lived experiences
It’s really good!
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As someone who rates VII pretty high, the popular opinion to me has always seemed that VII is overrated and that VI is the masterpiece where FF peaked.
If we’re going for the game that people most consistently rate high I’d say FF X is also up there.
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Yeah. There was a period during the early-to-mid 2000s where FFVII frequently won things like GameFAQs polls about the series and whatnot, but that is more a consequence of how much larger it was than all the games that came before it and many of them that have come after. It had cultural reach (turns out advertising the game during Monday night football with those fancy cutscenes got people to notice it!), but for many people it may be one of the only Final Fantasy games they’ve ever played. That probably speaks to the origin of the feeling among Final Fantasy players in specific that FFVII is overrated (i.e., it’s “the popular one,” and therefore bad)
There is, of course, also a generational component: FFX seems to be the most generally well-regarded in the series for people who began post-SNES era, for example (and it certainly deserves that regard, for all the reason that VII does, imo)
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yet
but I would love to hear you elaborate
ive been really interested in “comedy games” for a while and while I fluctuate between thinking Jackbox and Goose Game are “funnier” I think there are some contenders for funny games!
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Haven’t jumped into the JRPG debate earlier (since they’re not really my thing anymore) I think the reason FFVI is so highly rated is, whether people realize it or not:
The villain wins. Kefka sets out to destroy and rule the world and he does. The second half of the game is the team regrouping and overthrowing him, but it’s too late. The world is forever changed, lots of people died, and we see the characters having to adjust to this new reality.
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We gotta get you on Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon (1997)
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Undertale is a prime example of a game which genre should just be listed as “comedy” imo.
Like sure it’s a rpg on paper, but that’s not really why you play it and if you don’t vibe with the humour, then there’s not a lot of other stuff to engage with in it.
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I think lots of games have funny moments or funny sequences, but no video game has ever given me the experience that a really good comedy can do, where I’m doubled-over, stamping my feed, cry-laughing.
For example, I think Judero is pretty funny sometimes, but it’s not a comedy. It’s not trying to be funny above all, and it isn’t.
Jackbox is an interesting example, because how funny it is depends on how funny your friends are. They give you the frameworks to build your own funny stuff. It’s like a comedy-facilitator, rather than a comedy-game. But maybe comedy-facilitator is just what funny games are (genre is lurking once again). I think you could also describe a lot of parlor games as “comedy facilitators”.
Undertale has some funny bits, but it’s all very “sensible chuckle”.
I want a game that’s so funny it’s hard to play. Maybe this is impossible. It’s not like there are a bunch of hilarious sports out there.
Though… there is DDT.
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I think a better measure of a JRPGs quality is the degree of Stockholm Syndrome you feel at the end. After spending almost 60 hours playing I better be in love with these characters.
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I think FFVII hit its peak popularity in the mid-2000s, right before the compilation stuff like Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core came out. At least, that’s my memory of things. It’s still the best one to a lot of the older millennial crowd. I think it’s in that Ocarina of Time slot where it’s the one from its series that ends up on the “Greatest Video Games of All Time” listicles.
If you go to the Final Fantasy reddit they refer to VI, IX, and X as “the big three.” After a while, I actually kinda forgot that FFVII is arguably more popular/well-liked
I like VII well enough but my contrarian take is that it’s probably not a top 5 Final Fantasy game. I prefer VI, X, XII, and XIII, and I still have a few more games to get through (including IX).
I see a lot of parallels between FFVII and the much-loved SMTIV. Great first five hours and then they just lose a lot of steam. Also, the gameplay is a broken mess in both games (and not in the fun-to-break way that FFVIII has going for it).
I don’t like the post-Midgar stuff where you just bop around and do character-of-the-day story beats e.g. Barrett in Corel, Red in Cosmo Canyon, Yuffie in Wutai, etc. I think the cast is kinda weak overall, actually, since a lot of them get all of their development at once and then completely vanish from the plot for the rest of the game.
Cloud… I like. But I have some thoughts that I have trouble reconciling. Mainly, Cloud does not have an arc. He starts the story at A and ends the story at B, but he doesn’t really work through anything to develop his character from A to B. Instead, Tifa just unscrambles his memories and he’s a different person. Also I feel like the reveal is a bit of a have-cake-and-eat-it-too situation: Cloud’s not SOLDIER, but he received the same exact genetic modifications that a SOLDIER receives and can physically do all of the same things as a SOLDIER and has been doing all of those things and has been a badass the whole game and also kinda-sorta killed Sephiroth even before he was genetically modified so… what a fraud!
I’ll go against trend and say the plot is actually probably my favorite part about the game. I think FF7 really hit the right level of Final Fantasy batshit/convolution that we got in varying degrees between VII and Lightning Returns, before they decided to make boring westernized games. You’d sound somewhat insane trying to recap the plot to someone else, but it flows nicely while playing it.
Tokyo Mirage Sessions had me guffawing and cry-laughing, and it doesn’t get the credit for it
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I quite like FFVII’s plot, too, for what it’s worth. I find that unreliable narrators are a lot of fun, actually, and they especially reward second playthroughs (or readings or watchings, depending on medium)
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Have you played Hypnospace Outlaw? That’s the only one for me
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My top five final fantasies (mainline, no remakes or sequels)
Secret #1 that doesn’t count: XIV
- X
- VI
- VII
- IV
- VIII
I feel like VIII is probably popular around these parts, and idk if this is contrarian, but I think the first disc of that game is possibly the peak of the series at least in that era. It really does fall off hard and the final dungeon / boss is imo atrocious, but overall I still just have a fondness for it. There’s a real strangeness to a lot of it, some really dire plot twists, an absurd magic system that encourages you to treat the game like work, and some hilariously bizarre party interaction. The music and aesthetic are both as good as anything the series has ever done though, and I’d put its best sections up with the best of any other game.
Maybe there’s another contrarian opinion about games overall to be derived from the feeling this game gives me. It feels like it should be my favorite game of all time, but it’s really not. There’s just too much about it that bugs me.
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I have! I extremely like its use of hidden information. It’s funny, but didn’t blow me away in that regard. But I totally still think about stuff like Granny Cream’s Hot Butter Ice Cream or the several invented music genres.
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First disc of VIII is in contention for the best Final Fantasy game
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Under these criteria, it looks something like this for me. I shift the games up and down over time as I think about them, though, which I do a lot (FFIX occupied the #1 spot for me up until several years ago, over FFXIII, believe it or not!)
Secret Most Personally Beloved #1
Final Fantasy XI
- FFXIII
- FFIX
- FFVII
- FFX
- FFIV
Up until Dawntrail, I would have given FFXIV the secret #5 slot, but after two back-to-back expansions I’ve felt really dropped the ball (Endwalker was a mess, don’t at me, lol), only Shadowbringers really deserves it, and it unfortunately cannot stand entirely on its own
Seriously, though! FFVIII’s first disc is some of the best stuff in the whole damn series
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