@“phylaxis”#p121527
It’s the same boss fight but you don’t have the same amount of abilities when you get to that part in the actual game which makes it a lot longer and more tedious than it was in the demo.
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@“JoJoestar”#p121482 Final Fantasy IV and VI are both already like that despite being 2D. I don’t think action and spectacle are against what a good Final Fantasy is
Yeah man, Final Fantasy was always the Jock RPG. Battle graphics were inspired by American football. Active Time battle??? Yes, they were always on a trajectory of making RPGs as exciting and action-based as possible. The issue here I think is they seemingly **_severed the unbroken ARPG DNA strand_** that went from King's Knight-> Seiken Densetsu-> Chrono Trigger-> [ late90'sShenaningans]-> Kingdom Hearts-> Crystal Chronicles-> Dissidia FF-> FFXII-> FFXV-> FFVIIR, and replaced it with outside influence from Team Ninja.
Stuff like Seiken Densetsu and Kingdom Hearts has _always_ been closely tied to mainline FF games. It's not like SaGa where they kind of keep it separate-- Square's Action RPGs always mix with Final Fantasy.
The main way I will convince myself to swallow this bitter pill is to convince myself that FFXVI is the latest addition to the Pantheon of Squaresoft Action RPGs. It just feels like they've cut so many of the unbroken through lines and ancestry that make up the DNA of a squaresoft RPG and replaced them with team ninja stuff. While the DNA strand has been severed, I have yet to determine if it not only doesn't feel like a Square RPG, it also doesn't feel like a Square Action RPG. I haven't played it.
The most recent "*Character Action Game*" that I have played is _Sekiro_, btw. I'm not even sure what the hell a character action game is supposed to be.
@“treefroggy”#p121599 Character action for is one of those ‘I’ll know it when I see it‘ kind of genres. That being said I think the combat should reflect or be an extension of the character’s personality. Almost like a fighting game. And loosely the combat should have ‘stuff’ in it.
I'm still pretty early on in the game. I'm hesitant to claim that this is a bad final fantasy game. I'm still sort of determining whether this is an incredible game in general or not.
@“mindleftbody”#p121576 there are no triple a games that dont need polishing after release day
@“Reverse Kaiser”#p121621
To be clear I actually really like the game, I was just responding to phylaxis question. Having replayed FFVII and X recently I would personally consider long and tedious boss battles as kind of being a final fantasy “thing”. I understand everyone’s criticisms and there are certain things I think could improve the game but overall I have been rly enjoying XVI for what it is. I think it’s possible that I’m enjoying it more because I haven’t engaged with ANY of the media/games people are comparing it to lol. I am purely experiencing it as Final Fantasy and it’s pretty cool and fun.
@“MovingCastles”#p121620 is Character Action a new genre? I feel like every game in the PS2 era was character action lol.
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@“treefroggy”#p121636 is Character Action a new genre? I feel like every game in the PS2 era was character action lol.
I'd have trouble thinking of a character action game that predated _Devil May Cry,_ if one exists.
Oh, so it's the devil may cry genre. Hm……. Does Viewtiful Joe and Okami count?
Shatterhand and Kickmaster why not
@“Gaagaagiins”#p121640 Brave Fencer Musashi
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@“treefroggy”#p121642 Viewtiful Joe and Okami
imo--Maybe but probably not, and No
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@“Reverse Kaiser”#p121653 Brave Fencer Musashi
I have never played it but I would be interested to know more about it
Dang my question for the podcast should have been what is a character action game
In the PS2/Xbox era it feels like that term was invented and used for DMC and Ninja Gaiden.
I always thought of the genre as an action game where you control a specialized character with fighting game inspired controls that emphasize timing, complex inputs, and combos that I do not have fun playing
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@“sabertoothalex”#p121669 I always thought of the genre as an action game where you control a specialized character with fighting game inspired controls that emphasize timing, complex inputs, and combos that I do not have fun to playing
I agree with this save for one addition and one counter--I think they also emphasize an at least RPG Lite progression system, usually some kind of skill tree, with a combination of numerical power increases of existing actions, altogether new combat or mobility maneuvers, and evolutions and improvements of your existing kit.
The counter is that I tend to enjoy them very much
The “fighting game inspired” point is very apt, though
I‘m in favor of having a specific subgenre (subformat?) for this type of game. It always rubbed me the wrong way to call Yakuza or Assassin’s Creed an Action RPG because while it's technically true, the design and player experience are totally different than party-based Action RPGs like Tales or modern Ys. Like, as simple as it is, having multiple characters to switch between adds a level of strategy and consideration that is absent from character action rpgs. I also think progression is more similar to an action game where the emphasis is weighted more toward unlocking new moves/weapons/combos then leveling up and having stats like strength or defense increase.
It does raise some interesting questions... are NieR games character action? Is Valkyrie Elysium character action?
Also character actions games don't need to have you control a single character. If controlling a single character was at one point a hallmark of the genre, it has almost gone around to the other direction and character action games routinely up the ante by throwing multiple player characters into the mix, with their own playstyles and gimmicks that may not have much in common at all with the main protagonist.
Heavy spoilers for FFXVI: ||don't tell me if I'm correct or not, but I'm still half expecting to have at least some substantive segments where I'm playing as Joshua, foreshadowed by that short segment in the beginning of the game where you play him as a dorky little baby who can't fight.||
@“Gaagaagiins”#p121665 but is Strangers of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origins a character action game though. People say it‘s a souls-like but the combat has more ’stuff' in it than a souls game (arguably)
Also I am plugging away at the game and one thing I will say is that Mmmmmmm I love how sticky the fighting is and I unashamedly love a nice generous timing window for special dodges and counters and whatnot.
Not a whole lot about this combat is unique and not everything is perfect, but when I get into The Zone and chain Precision Dodges and pursue an enemy and just blitz out a bunch of fancy bright lights producing attacks, it can feel really great.
One thing I really like as a character action fan is that there is a clean distinction in both the effect of a Precision Dodge and a Parry, as well as more or less the philosophy for achieving them. If you're paying attention you can Precision Dodge incoming attacks pretty reliably and stay on the offensive by weaving through an enemy's strikes. However, Parries are a different matter where I have basically stopped altogether in trying to trigger them on purpose, and just find them coming out organically by recklessly staying on the offensive. A specific accessory really helps with this, ||the Berserker Ring,|| which ||upgrades|| your Precision Dodge into an ||anime-as-fuck bullet time slide|| which then also gives you a several second long ||pseudo-semi-priming, as in, your various melee attacks turn into the perpetual combo flaming sword strikes you get when semi-primed.|| It rules, there have been a few specific enemies where I found that if I Precision Dodged a certain part of a sequence of a special attack, if I immediately Lunged in or just hammered on the melee combo I would get a Parry easily.
I think, for me, the biggest surprise about _FFXVI_ is that it's not just a character action game, it's turning out to be a certified _banger_ of a character action game.