but first,
Who did you take on the Skywheel Date in Chapter 12?
- Aerith
- Tifa
- Barret
- Yuffie
- Nanaki
- Cait Sith, Vincent, and Cid
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voters
Now THAT was a real hamburger steak of a game. Not high art, not entertainment, but high entertainment. Bada bing
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Okay, remember, if you clicked on this thread, itâs because you have rolled credits. Even still, Iâm gonna give you a helpful drop down button, just in case youâre a compulsive weirdo who canât not click on threads, âcause here comes spoilers about THAT SCENE, YES THAT ONE, YOU KNOW THE ONE IâM TALKING ABOUT, DONâT EVEN TRY TO PRETEND YOU DONâT:
Summary
The more I think about it the more the way they handled the moment Aerith is (?) killed (???), and then also the aftermath of it, the more I can't get over how fucking INSANE and funny conceptually of a way to do that it was.
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A friend of mine put it brilliantly: itâs Schrödingerâs Murder. There is a way to believe in both outcomes: we get to literally see Cloud knock Sephirothâs sword away, CLEAR AS DAY, yet we also see Aerithâs blood dripping off of it, which we can absolutely presume is because she was ran clean through and killed. We see the whole party except Cloud acting crushed and devastated, then we see Aerith sitting among them like nothing is happening. Thereâs that moment in the scene in the field before the whole party flies off, where Cloud and Aerith âhave a conversationâ and there is a manufactured a reason as to why Aerith is no longer with the party going forward (because sheâs âstaying behindâ), and then in the same goddamned scene there's a moment in that scene where Nanaki goes ââŠAerithâŠ?â as if he sensed her being there, but the tone of his voice overwhelmingly suggests he is confused at this because she obviously cannot be there because she fucking died.
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Aerithâs death is a Schrödingerâs Murder, but we are not yet brought to the point of true observation of whether or not it happened.
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The way it was presented, in my opinion, completely robbed the moment of its shock value and emotional weight. A lot of the entire sequence is confusing and feels rushed through.
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And it's perfect this way, and personally I think it was clearly done that way on purpose.
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As Iâve theorized in the past, itâs all part of a narrative device for getting us all in a parallel emotional track to our leading man himself, Cloud. I really think they are trying to pull off being able to have their cake and eat it too. I know Iâve extolled my own theories about what theyâre cooking here before elsewhere so Iâm not going to go over it again, but, I canât think of too many ways in which Rebirth has really strongly contradicted this. The whole âdivergent worlds/timelinesâ thread teased out in Remake and then kinda both pulled back from yet also more explicitly talked about in Rebirth was suggestive, even provocative, but I really think they are still employing all of that as a red herring. All of this is in Cloudâs head. Maybe the whole game isnât framed within Cloud being adrift in the Lifestream after Ultima Weaponâs attack on Mideel as I thought (although letâs not even I get into the expanded Gongaga reactor section has a sequence where Tifa is swallowed by the Weapon, adrift in the Lifestream, and experiences vivid visions of her pastâŠ), but, I think itâs very arguable that a lot of what we see in this game is what Cloud wants to see or remember. I still say that weâre experiencing the events of the game as filtered through Cloud's trauma induced amnesia one way or another.
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That Iâm certain this is the case is also really the beauty of it all too, though, because thereâs absolutely still a way they can go the other route here and they can commit fully to the alternate timelines or parallel worlds thing. I mean, if you ask me the lack of commitment and trust in the source material is why I think that kind of thing is a bit of a copout and wishy-washy, you can just insert âit's a parallel universe/timelineâ into any story to justify getting fanfic-y about it. But, even if I think itâs all a red herring, I didnât find it nearly as worrying or grating as I did in Remake. If thatâs what they end up doing, maybe, just maybe, theyâll be able to win me over, but, it will take some work.
In any case, the actually rather narratively interesting aspect of it all is that parallel emotional journey weâre on here, because, as things stand, weâre not going to find out whether Aerith was truly killed, or if weâre truly in some kind of parallel dimension, until Cloud does. And, so, that shock value and emotional weight I mentioned earlier isnât exactly robbed, but, is going to be deferred to the next entry, suspended in air. Which is I think a pretty meta-narratively clever way to remake a game with the stature of Final Fantasy VII and the kinds of themes and narrative devices it has. And I feel pretty confident they'll stick the landing in the next entry.
If nothing else it sure had me goddamned glued to the television screen as that scene unfolded. Where else has a remake of a 20 year old anything with a famous twist to it gotten anyone invested just in the idea of just seeing what is actually going to happen?
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@âGaagaagiinsâ#p159159 >!In any case, the actually rather narratively interesting aspect of it all is that parallel emotional journey weâre on here, because, as things stand, weâre not going to find out whether Aerith was truly killed, or if weâre truly in some kind of parallel dimension, until Cloud does. And, so, that shock value and emotional weight I mentioned earlier isnât exactly robbed, but, is going to be deferred to the next entry, suspended in air.!<
I've been surprised by some of the negative reactions to the way they handled >!the big scene. It seemed pretty clear to me that they're setting up the big reveal about what actually happened to coincide with the mental breakdown Cloud has in the latter part of the game, precisely because they knew they couldn't recreate the emotional impact of that moment for anyone who knew going in that Aerith was supposed to die. They've deferred it, like you say, and I would lay down money that we're going to see the scene, including laying her to rest like in the original, at some point during Part 3. If they play their cards right, I think it's going to hit like a truck. I've got a fair bit of faith that they will, too.!<
All in all, I'm really intrigued and excited by the direction they took things. After Remake, it was clear that we weren't going to get a 1:1 remake, so I went in with no expectations as to what would or should happen, so that may have helped me roll with the direction they're taking things better than some others have been able to
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@âallieâ#p159166 Theyâve deferred it, like you say, and I would lay down money that weâre going to see the scene, including ||laying her to rest|| like in the original, at some point during Part 3. If they play their cards right, I think itâs going to hit like a truck. Iâve got a fair bit of faith that they will, too.
The deliberate omission of the moment where Cloud >!lays Aerith to rest in the water!< was almost like a smoking gun for me, on this whole thing. Like... in the original it's a touching and heartwrenching and haunting and serene moment, it's The Good Stuff, and, in a game that puts it's whole goddamned game-ussy into lovingly, obsessively creating and recreating and recursa-creating and un-creating-only-to-actually-just-secretly-straight-forwardly-recreating the source material, in a way that is almost even _crass_ a lot of the time (crass in way I eat up like a man starved, mind you), how could they have _possibly_ consciously chosen to NOT put that in??????????? It was all I was thinking about in that moment.
By which I mean to say, I would not in a million years bet against you on that, madam.
Not to mention, after just trying to find a video of the original, I have now been reminded of the fact that it was all but shown on camera (mind you, through a thoroughly obscuring bloom) in a sequence during the final boss fight in _Remake._ Timestamp is at about 1:30 here:
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@âGaagaagiinsâ#p159168 Not to mention, after just trying to find a video of the original, I have now been reminded of the fact that it was all but shown on camera (mind you, through a thoroughly obscuring bloom) in a sequence during the final boss fight in Remake. Timestamp is at about 1:30 here:
Oh shit, what a find! I missed that when I went through _Remake_. Yeah, we're definitely gonna see it in Part 3, no doubt in my mind
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@âGaagaagiinsâ#p158495 look I donât have to roll credits to vote Aerith and Barret. If the date is the climax of the game thatâs fucking dope
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@âtreefroggyâ#p159197 If the date is the climax of the game thatâs fucking dope
It's more climax adjacent, but, it's certainly in a place of high importance.
Also just gonna put this out there⊠Yuffie is such an adorable little dork. She is cringe but she is free
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I generally donât talk about my âjobâ as a community moderator because thatâs not a healthy relationship for the community to see you as mod first member second, but I want to make it clear that Iâm clicking on this thread both because itâs my âjobâ and also because this game has been fun as hell and I just want to be involved in any FFR2 stuff I can be involved with in real time.
Post some stuff in this thread everyone. But know Iâm still over in the ânormalâ spoiler thread enjoying life.
||Something thatâs really stuck with me is the part in the Temple of the Ancients where Sephiroth is talking about his plan (which I still donât fuuullllyyy understand) of merging timelines to become this eternal timegod being that will rule over all of creation âforeverâ, and Aerith says âthereâs no such thing as foreverâ to which Sephiroth replies âbut there will be.â Thatâs a really interesting exchange to include in a remake that so openly grapples with the task of trying to recapture a feeling that legions of gamers in their 30s or 40s felt playing the original more than 20 years ago. It also sort of leads me to read Sephirothâs motivation starting from burning down Nibelheim as almost like a mid-life crisis story, which is the closest any FFVII-adjacent work has come to making him feel like a human being to me.||
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Grumpy about the gastropodâs attacks that canât seem to be blocked or dodged in the last stage of the fight. First time Iâve been this stuck on a boss.
Wait, is there not a Japanese version of No Promises to Keep? But⊠youâve got Maaya Sakamoto right there!
Iâm finally watching NightSkyPrinceâs video on the ending and somehow I never noticed that ||Stamp is a different breed of dog in Zack's timeline||
EDIT: ||Oh shit and he's also different in any offshoots of the timeline too. Why did nobody tell me Stamp is important. I wasn't paying attention to Stamp||
Well Iâm a crying mess after Aerithâs trial. She is, without a doubt, the strongest character ever depicted in a video game. To be abused by Shinra at a young age, losing her mother and have to navigate the hostility of the slums, then falling for a guy who disappears on her, having to navigate the truth of her background and the duty it entails alone, and then the next guy she allowed herself to have feelings for was so emotionally unavailable that even in her dream* he couldnât muster the feelings we know he has. And sheâs just as chipper and warm as one could possibly be. The ending is almost even more brutal to her than to just let her rest⊠To have to stay behind and know that your job isnât over while the people you grew so strongly attached to are heading into mortal danger. All this and she still dies young. She may even be aware of it. But her resilience is so believable and true to her character. Itâs so rare for this medium to tell a story with emotional stakes like hers that it makes me cherish what they were able to accomplish even more.
*- She says itâs her dream, but the ending FMV makes me think that maybe we were in Cloudâs dream and maybe we havenât fully left it. So when heâs seeing her, heâs seeing into his dream, and heâs the only one existing in two realities. It might take some thought to process what exactly happened in the end. I think Biggs might still be alive, guys. They really didnât explain the dynamics of Zachâs timeline, but even more surprising they havenât even revealed that Cloudâs identity crisis in regards to Zach. This actually kind of worries me, I thought that and the imposter Tifa stuff was going to be explored more. The third game is going to be wild and I donât know if theyâre going to be able to land this plane. I have faith theyâre going to do Rocket Town and Wutai and all of the exotic locations justice, but I donât know if itâs really going to pay off since they are straddling the line still.
Iâm still shaken up with emotions this whole experience will stay with me for a long, long time. This game is a truly stunning achievement.
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Also â Fuck you Sephiroth! I brought you to 0 HP and he still killed me! For a few very confusing seconds I thought this was the actual ending.
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Thatâs definitely a concern of mine, too. Theyâve set up a ton here and âending gamesâ are notoriously difficult to land. If they donât stick the landing, itâs going to really change how I feel about this project on the wholeâŠ
âŠbut! Theyâve had so much love and respect for this universe all the way through that Iâve found myself optimistic. I think if anybody can pull this off, itâs this crew, but itâs certainly going to be a monumental task
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Fun Fact: Sephirothâs final form in Rebirth is based on the final boss battle with Dark Ramzey from FOAMSTARS. Two equally iconic villains!
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Thanks delayed input for spoiling Kid G, saying he is bad, bad to look at. He has no clue. I was looking forward to the punching glove goblins. I think about them all the time.
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