i think a lot of what this thread sort of points to is (older) games being in a sort of “right place, right time” situation.
there are definitely ones that stand the test of time and are infinitely playable, but especially with rpgs, there are just things they were doing that can't really translate to the present unless you're willing to be very patient, i think.
@exodus#11618 I have played Bonk‘s Adventure, I thought it was pretty good. Bonk feels really heavy and chunky, juggling enemies is fun and chewing your way up walls is great. I understand Bonk’s Revenge is considered superior in pretty much every way so I reckon I‘ll enjoy it! I’ll bump it up my list, thanks 
@Syzygy#11636 Of course what I said was kind of reductive, but I do think there is a huge, perhaps age related like @yeso said, bifurcation in how people talk about and appreciate this game. The people I was referring to are people I knew in real life from college, most of whom were at most a year or two old when Earthbound came out. My school had a game developers club that I was never really a part of, but I attended meetings of occasionally. I remember feeling a distinct sense of disappointment because Earthbound was constantly thrown around there as a point of comparison, but whenever I tried to talk about it in detail with people, I discovered they hadn‘t really played it. I’m coming from the perspective of someone who hadn‘t played that many of the “classic games” people who seemed in the know were always talking about, and having finally played one and being really moved by it and wanting to talk about it in detail, I was sad that a lot of the people around me who I had assumed played it hadn’t.
To be clear, there's nothing wrong with them not having played it through all the way -- I have played an incredibly small number of games all the way through -- I was just disappointed because, like I said, I had felt like I was the only one who hadn't played it, and when I finally did play it I thought there'd be more people to talk about it with in real life.
This was all before the SNES classic and Nintendo Switch Online, so that's another part of it. I imagine a lot more people my age and younger have played it recently, since it's a lot more accessible.
With people who were actually playing games when Earthbound came out, that's a completely different story, and I'm not really qualified to say anything about them. This forum is really the only place where I talk to people significantly older than me about games.
But I can totally see why what I wrote would sound annoying! I probably should have phrased it in a different way.
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@saddleblasters#11632 I haven’t played Mother 3 yet
your critique of superficially nostalgic or quirk-appreciative earthbound audience members will serve you well when you play mother 3
Undertale is just trash. Sorry I guess? I got it when the some people started hyping it up but before it was a cult thing. I had a bad time. I think I have it like 6 hours but then I look it up and people say thats how long the game is so eh??
It feels like this game is talking down to me in a weird dumb way. Its about as deep as a lit applause sign and it seem to know it but thinks it works anyway. Visually it looks like what it is, a first effort Game Maker game trying to be “retro”. Also the talk buldludluldls are really obnoxious.
Neir is a bummer. The act of playing the game isn't very fun except kind of during bosses and bit more when exploring a new thing its doing. The big ideas are kind of depression masturbation. The whole game has this tone "of its over now and everything sucks, embrace the void" that echos a way I feel when depressed but unlike when Im in that state no introspection or creative growth emerges from playing Neir. It has that like anime character woman in porn store lingerie flyn around. Which just feels kind of retrograde and out of place. Give me skeevy dude vibes.
Its kinda sad to know people who talk about EarthBound dont often beat it. I had a really good time with that game. I however think that experience was partly due to where I was in life and what I was going through. I dont know if Id love it now like I did then. The music is good enough and the things happening weird enough Id still find most of it a page turner.
I think Mother 3 is brilliant and Ill likely never play it again.
Ive started FF7 about 10 times and Im finally nearing its end. I've tried very hard to like it over the years because I like a lot of the things it does. Its a game that shifts right away as you leave Midgar and very slowly gets better over its length. Its in too many ways like Evangelion and like EVA I think the pondering of the mystery is the best part followed by enjoying the little details and technical adaptations. Its like a religious document, full of stuff that might mean something later.
I like everything about the FF7-R except playing it. Battle is both busy and boring.
I'm completely turned off by the caveman violence and completely impoverish alpha-wolf nihilism at the heart of the Last of Us. I think the lack of sustained talk about 2 means its culturally dead.
Majora's Mask just blows. Its a game with a schedule and an eye on the clock. Its also very ugly and runs very poorly. It feels like a game you say you like after dismissing Ocarina of Time for being too popular. Just say you like Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon instead (its the real answer trust me).
The Retro RPGs have all sucked. None of them have been as clever as games of the era they are aping.
The 3D Fallout games look so ugly and awkward that I just I don't care how they play. Does anyone actually like Pip-boy? IDGI
@yeso#11645 Surprised to hear you say this actually, I think M3 is better than M2 in every way basically. The scenario is more interesting, the combat system is super engaging. Definitely has better music. That game rips hard.
I‘ll tell you what. I don’t like the Yakuza games as games. I think the cutscenes and dialog are super entertaining almost all of the time, and navigating the neighbourhoods is pretty cool, but the combat is repetitive and boring and there‘s way too much of it. I’ve started half of the games in that series, and never been able to finish a single one because I dread every encounter. Even 7, which I enjoyed tremendously at first, eventually became too much of a slog. It's an improvement on the action-based battle system of earlier games, but not enough of one for me.
@Jtwo#11659 Its come up in a couple entries about games that worked in their time. Mother 2 was looking backwards, Mother 3 feels like a very forward looking (other than the Magypsies) or at least more modern game. That battle system and the snappy pace of that game are something I feel barely ever gets talked about.
@Syzygy#11662 Hmm its been a decade since I've played it. If I missed a reference it must have gone over my head.
@Jtwo#11664 I wasn‘t criticizing mother 3, just pointing out that saddleblasters perceptively hit on one of the game’s themes in their commentary on earthbound
Hmm, I guess IMO I always interpreted the M3 oeuvre as a much more generalized nostalgia. (which may be what you referring to) I thought for a second you were implying there was a sub-narrative about fan expectations etc. Like I said, I haven't played it or really thought about since the fan translation hit. I DO have the physical copy of the Fangamer guide though, the Pork Army Survival guide. Its still insane to me they made all those clay models for that book.
@whatsarobot#11661 i thought I was doomed to yakuza haterdom because of very similar feelings regarding battle. i now am playing Y0 on Easy Mode and I kind of love it: battles are quick and snappy enough now that i don’t mind so much that they break up time between mission objectives and putzing around kamurocho. (it does trivialize a portion of the game essentially, but I wasn’t into yakuza for the battle system.) give it a shot and see if it works for you!
@whatsarobot#11661
I completely unashamedly play Yakuza games on easy settings. Maybe if the series wasn't so expansive I’d be willing to willing to put more of my attention into the combat, but there's like eight of them in the main series! That's a lot! And I wanted to play all of them because there's so much fun stuff and goofy plotlines and detailed cityscapes to explore. I basically rammed through the entire series up to 7 within the past two years, and while the combat system can be fun at times, it can also turn into a chore extremely quickly, something to be played "around" while I hope a break is coming. Yakuza 5 started pushing my patience at points.
But I nonetheless find these dorkwad games to be worth sticking through, and I'm finding the switch to turn based combat in 7 a more than welcome alternative.
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@PhantomPhotom#11657 It has that like anime character woman in porn store lingerie flyn around.
are you talking about nier or nier automata? cause neir wasn't that depressing to me.
also yeah, play yakuza on easy, the battle system is not interesting enough to get good at in my opinion!
ah yes, I did sort of forget about that
@espercontrol @downchasm @exodus Thanks for the tip! My friend just started Yakuza 0, which is one of the ones I actually haven‘t tried. Maybe I’ll play along and try the ol‘ easy mode. (Although I do think I’ve tried easy on some of the other ones. I tend to play on easy mode whenever that option exists.)
@PhantomPhotom#11657 Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon is one of my all-time favourites, even if so much of it is mundane. This franchise being stuck in the Konami Vault hurts. Also even though tons of it is mundane and sometimes even bad, one thing is actually so cool and I don‘t get why it isn’t in more games–an extended gameplay section like a dungeon or area that has a soundtrack that changes and builds in intensity over time. And most of the music is really good, period.
Also what other game has an actual laugh track on its cutscenes?? Hello???? That's SO funny. I know if I ever make a game it's gonna have a laugh track
@xhekros#11628 Aw jeeze, I wanted to swing back into this post before bed to get a stab in on Hades...
I don't know if I don't like it, but I don't really see it as much more than "fine." And, yeah, most of my desire to keep playing also started to evaporate quickly once I beat the last boss even once. The amount of content in that game, while all pretty good on its own, feels way too small and similar to retread too many times. Doesn't help the 4th Stage is easily the worst.
I gotta disagree on the art style, I liked the character illustrations, and the environments are gorgeous. Character models that aren't portraits and enemy design though...? No thanks. Also I did not want to date any of the characters and I don't know why Zagreus would either. I did not encounter even a whiff of the "romance" things during play, and I'm glad I didn't. I mean, I've been in a relationship for 9 years, so, yeah.
I think that some of those weapons suck. Actually, half of them kinda suck. And I don't mean they're not effective, they're just not fun, or different enough from each other, or too much of the kit feels terrible to use. The sword is way too boring. That spin attack with the spear feels terrible and never worth the risk but it is seemingly one of the only ways to get decent damage out of it. Why does this game feature moves that compel you to stand still when every other part of the game emphasizes constant movement? Shield is the worst offender for this for sure. Casting as a weak ranged attack and debuff feels almost vestigial in design. Honestly, actually, I think the problem is that the design of the game's upgrade system and especially how Hammers are also random each run just means that each run will end up compelling you to use one or two parts of your kit above all others, and if it's not a part of the weapon's kit you like, too bad, it's the only way you can do damage effectively this run, cause if you don't have an upgrade applied to something it deals so little damage it is not worth using unless you get just the right Power (even then, still not satisfying to use). Letting you choose Daedalus Hammer upgrades freely during preparation would make so much more sense to me but I guess that's not roguelite.
Also............................................ I do not buy the whole "dying is a key part of the story" statement. I mean I get it because [spoiler], but I just don't see why that is much of a big deal, and that structure is often an obstacle too. Not to brag about how epically own of a gamer I am but maybe I just didn't die the Supergiant intended amount of times until I got to the end boss because there is nothing satisfying about being fed a story crumb by crumb every time I die, never mind if I figure out that I'm going to have to repeatedly fail to wait for the story to catch up to me.
I don't really see how the story would be all that different if I could return to Hades for story breaks in between areas.
Also that building shop is WACK. Why the hell would I grind this game like a hundred times just to buy the underworld's most expensive _drapes???_
@Jtwo#11667 yes I think we're talking about the same thing wrt to mother 3 themes (||anti-commodification/lotus-eater narcosis||)
and re yakuza combat - there's too much of it. Would like to see it more confined to boss fights and those pseduo-dungeons (when you storm millennium tower or a clan office for eg). I don't think the random street fights even "train" you for the bosses. I always have to stop and remember the mechanics I haven't used for 26 hrs bc I just want to get through the random battles. I suspect if they would make them less frequent, the fun parts like seeing new heat moves would stay novel. Don't really get why they don't dial it back
Great games though, and I personally find myself forgiving deep flaws as long as I think the ultimate experience is good
noticing that Sonic The Hedgehog remains unscathed……
This thread has bummed me out a bit and I keep thinking about what Brandon said about liking things being way more fun than hating them…………….
Don't want to stop the discussion around it tho so please continue if you feel like it, but man, trying to one up each other with negativity towards beloved stuff ain't my thing at all!