@“dry cleaner for dogs”#p49881 oh I wouldn‘t actually want to compare shining force and FFT, they’re pretty different. Shining Force breaks up its pace pretty significantly with its battle cutscenes, does less with map height, and is more about finding the “perfect path,” with the rock paper scissors of weapon hierarchies taking a larger part of the strategy. I really only invoked its name because I wanted to make fun of “Ta!?”
https://youtu.be/IY8JSCb-GtY?t=32
brandon it's interesting that you found FFT slow…i find the little cutscenes that play for every attack in Shining Force contribute much more to a feeling of slowness than i got from FFT. different strokes!!! still want to play SFIII for that voice acting and motoi sakuraba soundtrack tho
@“tapevulture”#p49898 I really shouldn‘t have brought Shining Force into it, it’s a totally different kind of game I would say (strategy RPG vs tactics RPG). FFT is slow in its operation and how the player can engage with it - it puts barriers in your way that I don't like. Shining Force is slow in pace, which is something totally different.
the panel criticized FFT…the forums are getting riled up!!
sorry...i'm sure it's annoying to make an offhand comment and have everyone take you to task for it
it‘s okay! I’ve definitely talked about how I don‘t think FFT is that good in a lot of places and a lot of ways, so it’s worth explaining. I just shouldn't have brought up shining force!
I am a little concerned that no one is at least talking about how good the music is in FFT even as they rightly take it to task for its tactical shortcomings.
no offense to anybody who loves it but I deliberately didn‘t talk about the music :o I find most straight orchestral scores to be entirely ignorable - I don’t specifically dislike it, but it's certainly not a soundtrack that I would listen to on purpose, or which I can remember after listening to it.
@“KennyL”#p49828 The PSP script reads very specifically like the translator (Tom Slattery) had just shotgunned all the Ice & Fire books but didn’t notice that George “Arrrgh” Martin is very specific about when his characters say “sellsword” and “ser” and “blood of my blood” vs. when they say “fuck”, “shit” and “cock”.
Hilariously he wrote the DS _FF4_ script in virtually the same style
Honestly I think it‘s true Final Fantasy Tactics is a sluggish and mechanically verbose game. Overcomplicated and bloated in a lot of unnecesary and unhelpful ways (the thing with the zodiac signs is something that I have yet to understand to this day, doesn’t make any sense and also doesn't seem to be super impactful on the experience???).
But it's also a game with a lot of "shortcuts" so to speak, small tricks and interactions that once you know them and take advantage of them alleviate a lot of the density and leaden nature of the game. Stuff like realizing that archers generally suck and magicians with teleport are a lot better as ranged units, or that knights and thieves can break or steal equipment mid-battle and immediately negate the whole existence of certain enemies during a encounter (they can't attack without weapons!). Of course, there is the argument to be made that while these make the game more enjoyable, they are not certainly symptoms of good game design.
Regarding the soundtrack, I'm afraid I'm not the biggest fan of Hitoshi Sakimoto. My enjoyment of his music ranges from considering it generic orchestral stuff to cacophonic and annoying to listen tracks. In fact, one thing that definitely made me enjoy 13 Sentinels more was the fact that it didn't sound like Hitoshi Sakimoto, and that he was generally less involved in the soundtrack of that game as opposed to Odin Sphere and Muramasa...
I‘ve got a lot of affection for FFT and TA, but I never return to the games because I don’t want to engage with the plodding gameplay ever again (and yet, I'm still intent on playing TO someday).
I just want more Matsuno! @Syzygy, your speculation in the [unsung originals thread](https://forums.insertcredit.com/d/288-unsung-originals/33) has got me even more excited for XVI.
@"2501"#p49915 That guy must have the midas touch for ruined localizations. Is FF Chronicles IV as good as I remember it? Because I liked it a lot, but I was in high school at the time.
@“Syzygy”#p49922 if it came across that way it was a mistake! definitely meant to be a “here‘s why I don’t think it's amazing” and “these are my opinions on the matter”
@“Syzygy”#p49922 Funny thing is I love FFT! And finding out that archers suck was an enjoyable part of my playthrough. I just like Matsuno‘s games a lot, I could go as far as saying that I like them best, at least in terms of the jRPG context. But I think stating that it’s a slow and cumbersome game that in a lot of ways doesn't do a great job explaining itself or its mechanics (at least within the confines of the game itself, maybe everything is better on the manual?) is fair criticism. As it is, for example, to offer the counterargument that some slowness and sluggishness is to be expected in any turn based RPG from this era.
I don't know, I just see both sides and understand where they're coming from, even though I'm definitely on the "I really like this game" side of things.
@“Syzygy”#p49927 That's completely fine and also thanks for that link, seems really didactic and something people definitely should read more about.
War of the Lions translation was good enough that I never cared about the slowdowns. Also doing power deleveling and making super OP characters (especially calculators) was soooo satisfying.
I love Sakamoto’s work and I’d certainly agree FFT is one of his weakest efforts. Theathrythm cemented the game’s legacy by faithfully introducing slightly boring tracks and a completely broken character (Orlandeau).
https://youtu.be/WIr1td-Smbw
In his defense, Sakamoto is extremely peculiar about his virtual instruments and mixing, as demonstrated by the later creation and managing of Basiscape, but he was just discovering the Playstation and probably lacked the time to figure out how to properly handle MIDI sequencing, which is why the BGM sounds like a poor imitation of a Super Famicom soundtrack (in fact a lot of PS1 games suffered from this issue back then).
There is a massive gap between the virtual orchestration of FFT and Radiant Silvergun, even though they were composed just a few months apart.
https://youtu.be/RwdN2WwbOFs
I find his (collaborative) work on FFTA much more interesting and telling of his composing and sound mastering skill. Especially if you consider how smartly the soundtrack takes into account what the GBA output will deliver.
https://youtu.be/FitRzyV2jw8
This aggression toward FFT’s soundtrack (which was also a collab with Sakimoto and Masaharu Iwata) will not stand
yes I have been summoned to defend the work of one Mr. Thomas Slattery
@“connrrr”#p49921 You mean the PSX translation? From what I remember it’s serviceable but a little rough, and apparently takes the most liberties with the translation (lotsa PSX-era random swear words). Clyde Mandelin (the Mother 3 guy) did a good post comparing all the FF4 translations a while back, though he evaluates more for accuracy than style. fwiw I’m pretty sure the PSP version uses the GBA translation, which is generally agreed to be the best one. (Though I think PSX is your only shot at playing an official translation of the game’s original “hard type” SFC version, without the content changes made to the various other releases.)
Also, Tom Slattery is the guy who took “son of a submariner” out of _FF6_ and Frog’s “knightly” dialect out of _Chrono Trigger_! All about “accuracy”, that guy…
On an unrelated note, FF4 DS drives me crazy because the graphics, soundtrack and localization are all worse than other versions but the gameplay is almost strictly superior (dramatically overhauled balancing and UI, fewer but more challenging/tactical encounters, customization options and added side content that introduce more meaningful strategy and playstyle choices without messing with the game’s story and structure like the GBA/PSP versions letting you swap party members in the endgame).
@“Syzygy”#p49961 The funny part is that while Slattery was doing WotL, Alexander Smith and Joseph Reeder (the guys who did Matsuno’s other games from Vagrant onward) were simultaneously at SquEnix working on… FF12: Revenant Wings and Tactics A2, the DS Ivalice spinoffs that Matsuno had no involvement with (and let’s just say are not up to his games in the writing department).