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Hi everyone. I uh... deleted a pretty fun thread by mistake when deleting several very un-fun threads over the weekend. There is no way to restore it. There was however a way to resurrect the thread that involved about an hour of copy/pasting and formatting. Hopefully this won't break the markdown parser etc, but I attemmpted to recreate the thread in the best way I could.
Happy new year!
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# @"exodus"#3
This thread began in another thread, so looks funny now, but was prompted by a discussion of âscoffâ vs âscarfâ as in to âscarf something downâ (eating it quickly). It moved along to discussions of british/american/french pronunciation of thing, and took on a life of its own! Below is the first post, in which I call attention to TomoftheFog using âscoffâ instead of âscarfâ for eating stuff fast/rabidly.
â
@Tomofthefog we use âscarfâ for that. I guess this is one of those slang terms that only strayed slightly from each other.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"exodus"#3 It used to be âscarfâ in the UK but itâs one of those phrases that changed slightly over time, like how people say âblesh youâ.
You can say either and people get it, but usually scoff is the one.
Weâre two peoples separated by a common language!
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# @"exodus"#3
uhhhh they do!? Iâve certainly never heard that in my life.
Iâm realizing you may be referring to general english pronunciation of things, rather than spelling. like how yâall say âpizzerâ instead of pizza if you have a vowel sound coming next. so I guess youâre saying scarf became scoff because folks donât pronounce Rs toward the end of wordsâŠ?
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# @TomoftheFog
Exactly, how new words are created from accents pronouncing things differently from the original word. I think it just naturally evolved as the word scarf Iâve only ever heard it used as the thing around your neck when itâs cold. Or fashionable.
Never heard anyone say âpizzerâ before! Sounds like âpisserâ which is slang for toilet usually in a pub!
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# @"exodus"#3
oh, youâve 100% heard people say pizzer and not noticed it. say âpizza and a cokeâ and youâll likely say it yourself! Iâve noticed english people canât hear themselves do it. it is one of the funniest things about English English to me aside from certain regions inability to do a th sound. on bakeoff theyâre always saying âyouâre haffway fruâ and referring to contestants dana and tasha as daner and tasher. (i.e. âtasher isnât the only one wiff an adventurous bakeâ)
Itâs called the intrusive R! yâall donât pronounce Rs at the end of words where they are present, but will insert them in where they arenât. Very complicated relationship you all have with the letter R.
I hope this isnât insulting, it is genuinely interesting (and a bit funny) to me!
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# @TomoftheFog
Not insulting at all, far from it! Iâve had many conversations with Americans who are fascinated in the differences in the language and how we sound so different. Iâll admit, having not lived in England for almost 10 years my accent isnât quite what it was, and being in France Iâm joining words more than I should, but I tried saying pizzer and it just didnât work!
Your observation on the th sound is one of my biggest pet peves in English, the word through pronounced âfrewâ makes my teeth crawl. And regarding the intrusive R you also have the linking R such as drawing where itâs the link and sounds like drawring.
One issue with English is the many accents you have in a very small place. I know the US is huge and people in New York sound different to people in La for example - but people in North and Sound London sound different and thatâs only 20 miles or so! But I was born in North London so I couldnât go south⊠No passport.
Thatâs a very London joke for yâall!
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# @"exodus"#3
if you fully say âpizza and a cokeâ thatâs probably down to your regional accent as well! it is funny how many accents youâve got there, to where people will make fun of each othersâ accents on TV where as an american Iâm sitting here thinking you all are really splitting hairs on some of these lol. Itâs down to how individual specific words are pronounced sometimes.
Language is indeed interesting! One of the more interesting official Englishes is Singaporean. Somewhere in between british english and something entirely different.
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# @TomoftheFog
Generally accents had a chance to really develop in the UK which I felt really helps to give different places their unique feel. The slang is something that fascinates me and is so varied even in small distances and something that is very unique to the countries. In France there are far less accents as back with Napoleon and his desire to have a single French language for the entire country. But the slang can really help spot where someone is from.
I think that language really is part of a culture and as people think in language how it changes does show. But you may be more into that culture than me, based on watching Bake Off, which I only know of. Iâd be glad to share some classic UK shows to really give you a lesson in accents.
I am still amazed with some of the US accents and how they came about. And how you ended up saying âtwotâ.
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# @"rejj"#455
@"exodus"#3 yâall donât pronounce Rs at the end of words where they are present
This also made it to the colonies, or at least to the particular one where I live! I donât really hear/register it unless I force myself to pay attention, but we also say things like âbee-ahâ for âbeerâ.
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# @"exodus"#3
ah yes, boston, long island, and the like!
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# @"Punzai"#313
@"exodus"#3 ahh I get you now. Yeah we do say Petes-uh! I read it as pizz-er. đ
@"exodus"#3 that video has just blown my mind. I realise I do this and have never heard it until now đł
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# @"LeFish"#591
Iâve never known any accent in the UK except East London, Essex and South West Walian accents to pronounce A as a hard sound. British English doesnât tend to have harder vowel sounds other than an ee sound for words like key or teeth, and oo for words like boot. Having said that, we are also lazy speakers; that video is pretty much spot on with the reasoning - we do add R at the end / start of words as a connector for sentence flow, and we shorten sentences exactly like the example he uses.
When I speak English I find myself speaking more lazily / adding R onto words somewhat interchangeably. Iâve such a weird bastardised, hybrid accent that, coupled with growing up also speaking Welsh, that the way that I speak in English sounds weird to a lot of people because I can make the unique Welsh noises like rolling Rs and that the language has mostly hard vowels.
>
Your observation on the th sound is one of my biggest pet peves in English, the word through pronounced âfrewâ makes my teeth crawl.
Second this. Also, th being pronounced as vv; bovver, anovver. I weep.
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# @"Punzai"#313
@TomoftheFog hey! I live in South London near Crystal Palace. Been in S London since 81 so Iâve seen and heard the change. MLE seems to have crept up very suddenly in the past 10 years. It actually made me laugh when Apple added it to their Siri voices. Wow! That accent really is a thing now. I hear my son talking to his friends and itâs totally different to how me and my wife speak (she also grew up in Canada so everyone thinks sheâs Australian đ )
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# @TomoftheFog
@"LeFish"#591 I remember working with someone who used the hard A on everything - and they were from somewhere up North. Heâd say âwAterâ and really put the emphasis on the a which stood out so much.
>
LeFish coupled with growing up also speaking Welsh
Thatâs impressive in itself! With the rolling Rs youâd be great at Spanish and take advantage of that one. I love a Welsh accent, but I have family in Cardiff (Go Barry Island) so am used to a much soften one than the northern ones can be.
>
LeFish th being pronounced as vv; bovver, anovver.
I just heard Catherine Tate then and it hurt. That is on par with frew. It hurts.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"Punzai"#313 Wow, totally different world to me there! I was born in Edmonton and managed somehow to crawl my way out of that one! But spent most of my teenage years in the North of London until I got my passport, and made it to the South Bank once, that was as far as I could go!
>
@âPunzaiâ#313 MLE seems to have crept up very suddenly in the past 10 years.
This makes a LOT of sense to me why Iâm not as familiar with it as I thought - I left the UK in May 2014 for a six month work project in Spain and stayed for three years, then moved to France so I really havenât been exposed to it as I used to be. That wiki article has some words I know but over half are a totally new language!
How is the difference in language for your wife? I am always curious when someone not from London moves there and how they adapt to the language/slang.
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# @"ââmaru"#146
>
TomoftheFog Your observation on the th sound is one of my biggest pet peves in English, the word through pronounced âfrewâ makes my teeth crawl.
>
LeFish Second this. Also, th being pronounced as vv; bovver, anovver. I weep.
Please leave the French alone.
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# @TomoftheFog
>
@âââmaruâ#146 Please leave the French alone.
As in the people or the language? As I live in France, am married to a French woman, have two half French children and itâs hard to avoid the people or the language. Believe me I have tried!
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# @"ââmaru"#146
@TomoftheFog Then, do your kids pronounce Bother and Through properly? If so, I refuse to believe theyâre even half-French. 17% maybe. Itâs like Americans trying to pronounce noyau.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"ââmaru"#146 They do indeed, well one of them does as my youngest is almost three years old and is still working on talking at all! 17% is a bit low, he does act very French at times, worryingly so!
Their primary language is French, not first as itâs a different construct when brought up in a bilingual or greater household (we learned a lot about this before we had children). My eldest, whoâs just turned five does pronounce it properly because I have to make sure I do, as his primary source of English. Well me and the Octonauts. His accent changes depending on what language heâs talking, but it really is more French than English. What is amazing is how his mouth changes shape when he changes language, even mid sentence.
Noyau is a tough one, no-ah-yo. My personal favourite one to hear anyone try to say is oiseau.
A clue, you prounonce it with two of the letters you spell it with!
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# @"Punzai"#313
>
@TomoftheFog How is the difference in language for your wife? I am always curious when someone not from London moves there and how they adapt to the language/slang.
Oh sheâs been here since the early 2000s so her Canadian accent is just a twang that confuses people as to where sheâs from⊠:D
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# @"Punzai"#313
>
@TomoftheFog Wow, totally different world to me there! I was born in Edmonton and managed somehow to crawl my way out of that one! But spent most of my teenage years in the North of London until I got my passport, and made it to the South Bank once, that was as far as I could go!
I love how people donât realise that the north/south London divide isnât a âbitâ we do, itâs a real thing. North London is a foreign country to me.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"Punzai"#313 Oh yeah, totally the same for me and Sarf London is a whole new world. I am good with remembering the north but you drop me in Clapham and Iâm lost!
>
@âPunzaiâ#313 Oh sheâs been here since the early 2000s so her Canadian accent is just a twang that confuses people as to where sheâs from⊠
Does she, and I really donât mean any offence by this, get mistaken for an American a lot?
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# @"yeso"#385
Iâm from Chicago and when I visit Texas people think Iâm Canadian. Is there some kind of transitive property at work? Does it loop back around at some point
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# @"ç©Ž"#580
>
@TomoftheFog What is amazing is how his mouth changes shape when he changes language, even mid sentence.
Iâve always been fascinated by this phenomena. If I know Iâm gonna be speaking English for an entire day I do a ton of face muscle warmup. When I donât do that my English pronunciation has to rev up for like an hour of talking before it gets to a level Iâm comfortable with.
I didnât grow up bilingual (had English classes all my childhood but didnât become fluent until I started listening to podcasts when I was like 12) and it is still hard to pronounce English words correctly mid speaking Spanish if English hasnât been in my mouth for a while.
When I was leaning french I teached my classmates my face muscle warm-ups and my teacher couldnât believe they worked lol
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# @"BluntForceMama"#711
My main reference point if I want to say something in a cockney accent is Delvin Mallory from the Thieves Guild in Skyrim -
âStick wivâ me, and deyâll never even know youâre dareâ
âYouâre da best damn thief in da placeâ
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# @TomoftheFog
@"ç©Ž"#580 Itâs all about where the words come from. English is primarily spoken with the front of the mouth, where as French is the back of the mouth (please confirm for me but I think Spanish is a mix of too, closer to the back) and the mouth changes depending on the sounds.
Going back to the through/frew thing - try saying through correctly without using your tongue, sounds awful!
>
@âç©Žâ#580 When I was leaning french I teached my classmates my face muscle warm-ups and my teacher couldnât believe they worked lol
My wifeâs English teachers taught her the same thing, learn to really move the jaw to allow for bigger vowel sounds!
Does your accent change too? And especially when you are in one language and have to use a word in another that doesnât exist in the first?
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# @TomoftheFog
@"antillese"#59 is it possible to move some of the linguistics chat into another thread please? Iâm worried the chat of English hijacked the podcast one!
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# @"exodus"#3
I personally donât mind it being here, unless you really want a specific linguistics thread, in which case you could make one!
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# @TomoftheFog
@"exodus"#3 I donât mind, can do something on the side like a certain podcast
Was a placeholder while @"antillese"#59 worked some magic and filled a thread. And it looked easy from my end ;)
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# @"antillese"#59
Merging in some posts per requestâŠ
Edit: OK, hopefully that worked though the OP is now weird. Sorry! Splitting and merging is not as easy as I donât make it seem!
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# @TomoftheFog
>
@âantilleseâ#59 OK, hopefully that worked though the OP is now weird.
If you mean by @"exodus"#3 he made me question how I say pizza so Iâm fine with your statement!
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# @"KennyL"#454
@"antillese"#59 wrowwr yer derserver pirzzer anner corker!!!rr
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# @"rootfifthoctave"#107
>
@TomoftheFog in the UK ⊠how people say âblesh youâ.
you what
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# @"tomjonjon"#140
A regional phrase round my neck of the woods is âbubblerâ. This is used instead of drinking fountain.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"rootfifthoctave"#107
That too! (Iâm assuming it was said as a joke and not an honest question)
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# @"hellomrkearns"#99
(Edit from Antillese: Here is a youtube post lost to time I think.)
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# @"sdate"#464
@"rootfifthoctave"#107 my californian grandmother does this!?? had never considered it might be weird
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# @"exodus"#3
As for why the American accent ended up the way it did and why we use a lot more vowel sounds than maybe the English do, I have long suspected that it has to do with frontier times. As the US was forming, we have English, Irish, and Scottish people here all speaking their brand of English, but then we also had germans, swedes, the french, the spanish, etc. There are a lot of words that people probably first heard from a german, or a swede, etc. overall that kind of flattened out but left us with some vestiges of the original, pronunciation of a word. I suspect the way we pronounce some things is influenced by that. So like americans probably heard âjaguarâ from someone from central america. So our âjaguarâ (jag-war) is closer to the original pronunciation (hag-uar) than british english folks who say âjag-you-uh,â because they probably read it before hearing it. We say âtahcoâ because mexico is just right down there and we heard it from them! British folk say âtack-oâ because british english didnât need to evolve to have as many sounds.
but thatâs just what I think based on no research lol
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# @"MoH"#1454
@"exodus"#3 i donât know how right or wrong you are but one thing that continuously surprises me is finding out how many place names america are just some bastardization of a Native American word
### Posting a poll: what are you grabbing from the ice box?
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# @"jxzo"#1592
I had an Irish coworker who would pronounce PR with the R sounding like âoarâ or âarâ. Apparently this was really specific to South Ireland since the Dubliners werenât pronouncing it in this very specific way.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"exodus"#3 I think youâre right, even with your amazing research! British English learned a lot of words by reading them and that explains a huge difference in pronunciation compared to the original language the word was in. I also think an influence is based on the accents in the UK and how the sounds come out of the mouth when spoken.
I have heard Americans say Tack-o before, so could this be a regional thing over a standard of tahco in the entire country?
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# @"MoH"#1454
@TomoftheFog lol its what people in my family would sometimes call the refrigeratorâi was being a little goofy but didnât even think it would cause confusion!
>
@TomoftheFog I have heard Americans say Tack-o before, so could this be a regional thing over a standard of tahco in the entire country?
thats crazy to me! i have only ever ever heard tacoâi can only imagine someone saying tack-o if they are aping a boston accent or if theyâre like a grandma from suburban nebraska
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# @TomoftheFog
@"MoH"#1454 Haha thatâs cool. When I read ice box I assume frozen like a freezer not like a fridge, so assumed it was part of the fridge itself like a salad drawÂźer or something. I know US fridges are big so figured they added more cooling for fizzy drinks.
edit: So apparently if you put ( r ) together you get this Âź. Which ruined my joke!!
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# @"Punzai"#313
@"MoH"#1454 hmm I was trying to think how we say it in our house and the only thing I could come up with was âcan of drinkâ or just âdrinkâ or just calling it whatever the name is like Coke, Fanta. I used to say fizzy drink when I was a kid.
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# @TomoftheFog
@ Punzai Same as me - we would say fizzy drink or drink, maybe pop as really young kids but never soda.
Tonic is tonic water, like with gin. But as all English children, you donât have one of those until your tenth birthday!
@"MoH"#1454 okay so I said our loud the question âwould you like a taco?â with both pronunciations and tahco which I know is right sounds so wrong with my accent!
Thatâs research!
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# @"Tradegood"#510
where I come from if itâs brown, itâs a coke, and if itâs orange itâs an orange soda. I have never heard anyone with an american southern accent say âfantaâ.
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# @"MoH"#1454
apparently saying âtonicâ is a super niche new england thing in the US. pop is super prevalent where iâm from (detroit/midwest) but soda is the most common across the country. @"Tradegood"#510 iâve always heard that âcokeâ is the way to say it in the south but itâs hard for me to wrap my head around that. i donât think anyone in america says fizzy drink.
speaking of detroit, we also call liquour stores âparty storesâ and diners âconey islands.â iâve also heard people say ending questions in a proposition is also a detroit thing (e.g. âwhere you at?â), but i find it hard to believe thatâs exclusive to detroit.
there are probably more i canât think of right nowâi find this stuff fun to talk about
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# @TomoftheFog
>
@âMoHâ#1454 where you at?
That is for me the strangest evolution in language across the world! Since the invention of mobile phones thatâs a new question that entered the global lexicon. Before you couldnât ask someone where they were, because you could either see them or were calling them at a known location. I do it myself and still blows my mind.
>
@âMoHâ#1454 diners âconey islands.â
Honest question - what constitutes a diner exactly? Is that a very specific time of restaurant or anywhere youâd go out for a sit down meal?
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# @"MoH"#1454
(Antillese note: lots of broken links in this one - but I think I got them all. đ)
@TomoftheFog
good point about the mobile phones thing, also reminded be of [this commercial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ko9Ogh75o)
in my mind, a diner has to be open 24/7 and have a really long menu with only 5 good things on it. in detroit, a diner has to have [coney dogs](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Detroit_Coney.jpg/1920px-Detroit_Coney.jpg) and [hanis](https://www.freep.com/gcdn/-mm-/11c815214a457b609b81c83d9e1db6e560b9c7b9/c=0-29-2397-1383/local/-/media/2015/09/17/DetroitFreePress/DetroitFreePress/635780858785380715-NationalConey-071315-0208-JJ-1-.jpg?width=2397&height=1354&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp).
[detroit one](https://detroit1coneyisland.com/) was my spot back when i lived there, but when i was a kid i would go to [a national](https://nationalconeyisland.com/online-store) on the east side with my dad.
i live in arizona now and some guy actually opened up a âdetroitâ style coney island here that kinda sucks lol. there are also a few âdetroit styleâ pizza places that equally suck (except for [jets](https://www.jetspizza.com/) which as THE best detroit style pizza and is even better than the oft-touted [buddyâs pizza](https://www.buddyspizza.com/), which iâve heard tim mention on the pod).
honestly a regional food thread would not be a bad idea.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"MoH"#1454 So much info there thank you! I have never heard of a hanis, I saw the picture and with no other research would try one. Not sure whatâs it it, but like a lot of French food ignorance is bliss there!
I really canât think of a UK equivalent of a diner. In my adventures in America Iâve been to quite a few over the years based on your explanation and even then I couldnât think of one back there.
Iâd love a regional food thread too! And as an Englishman and how famous the quality of our cuisine isâŠ
Seriously though I do love to learn about new cultures and food plays a huge part in that. You can learn a lot about people with what they feed you.
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# @"exodus"#3
@"MoH"#1454 check out Canada for more of that!
>
@TomoftheFog what constitutes a diner exactly?
In my view:
1) set/large menu
2) relatively cheap and fatty (comfort food, people say)
3) serves breakfast and dinner foods, most of which are shades of beige or brown
4) free coffee refills
5) open late (or 24/h), can get breakfast at all hours
6) big booths with tables in between for parties of 4-6
7) often chains.
I super dislike diners so other might have a different idea! I canât stand âcomfort foodsâ because they tend to make me incredibly uncomfortable after I eat them (also while I eat them) lol
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# @TomoftheFog
@"exodus"#3 I think you summed it up perfectly with the term âcomfort foodsâ there, that sounds to me like what Iâd expect in a diner if I went in again. Something I could make at home, but feel like going out and paying someone else to make.
When I lived in Spain there were places like that - huge menus of mostly bad food, almost all of it frozen so it was never fresh and usually just filled a hole. It was great after a night partying or just being too lazy to cook, but that was it, it was always a last resort for eating. Either everything else was busy or you were just really lazy.
I love comfort food, which is when my English truly comes out, but most of those products post Brexit are super expensive now.
>
@âexodusâ#3 serves breakfast and dinner foods, most of which are shades of beige or brown
Please expand on beige food!
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# @"exodus"#3
@TomoftheFog potatoes, mash, fries, gravy, pancakes, syrup, mac & cheese, rolls, tater tots, chicken nuggets, blooming onions, turkey, all shades of beige, all things youâd expect to be top of mind at a diner. Get a little browner than beige and youâve got steaks, hamburger, sausage, etc.
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# @"LeFish"#591
The closest thing we have to diners in the UK is a greasy spoon style cafe though most will serve from around 7 or 8am until 5 or 6pm because itâs not worth staying open around those hours and also most food licenses only permit serving refreshments within certain hours. Not the kind of place Iâd usually go unless Iâve travelled or Iâve hosted more people than itâs worth making breakfast for. Theyâre often independent too.
>
please expand on beige food!
Potato waffles, hash browns, eggs, onion rings, bread, pancakes!
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# @TomoftheFog
@"exodus"#3 I can see the colour scheme now when you put it like that! I like a bit of brown and beige on my plate, but it needs colour alongside it, which would vegetables and/or a sauce of some sort.
I guess itâs comforting for certain people, depending on what you like and more so, what you can eat!
@"LeFish"#591 Oh thatâs one thing I do miss is a proper fry up! Thinking back to what they were like I donât think physically I could eat now what I did then, as in the quantity but itâs something I do miss.
That horrible ketchup with way too much vinegar. Butter served with a bit of bread under it. And the greatest thing, deep-fried slice!
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# @"rootfifthoctave"#107
i hear americans sometimes say âfoe-wurdâ for âforwardâ and havenât been able to identify it with a consistent region/demographic. but not everybody does it!
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# @"DaveedNoo"#503
@"MoH"#1454 tons of cities and towns where I live are Native American names or derived from them. Visitors have a lot of trouble with Oconomowoc. tomjonojon probably knows what I mean. I didnât think about it at all until I was an adult.
Aside from being a bit nasally there is one clear marker of my accent and the rest has been slowly buffered away by television. And that is the word âBag.â Which naturally comes out as âBeehhgâ or something that rhymes with egg. I try to suppress it every time.
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# @"TracyDMcGrath"#244
>
@âMoHâ#1454 apparently saying âtonicâ is a super niche new england thing in the US.
can confirm. My grandparents on both sides said tonic instead of soda, my parents used them interchangeably, and my cousins mostly use soda. So I think it was pretty prevalent but is dying out now. Similar to other New England regionalisms that are morphing towards the generic American tv radio accent: bubblah->water fountain, clickah->remote, parlah->living room, celah->basement, etc. The only ones that seem to have sticking power are wicked and calling everyone kehd.
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# @"MoH"#1454
>
@âTracyDMcGrathâ#244 can confirm
so iâve been saying that for years but have never heard someone actually confirm it haha. iâm sad to hear the regionalisms are disappearing. english is killing a lot of other languages too with death by a thousand cuts.
@"DaveedNoo"#503 do you live in or around milwaukee by any chance? reason i ask is you voted âsodaâ on the poll which is actually common for milwaukee despite most of the midwest being âpopâ people. st louis also says âsodaâ instead of âpopâ and one thing st louis + milwuakee have in common are large beer bottling factories.
@TomoftheFog genuinely love your enthusiasm for these mundane aspects of culture, especially since you seem so well traveled. in my job i work with international clients a lot and iâll usually stop conversation if i hear an interesting piece of slang or something. this happened most recently with an australian client who said they were âflat outâ as a way of saying they were busy.
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# @"rejj"#455
@"MoH"#1454 none of the above! Closest would be âfizzy drinkâ, but really I would say âsoft drinkâ 100% of the time.
âŠI also almost never have/drink soft drinks, heh.
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# @TomoftheFog
>
@ârootfifthoctaveâ#107 âfoe-wurdâ for âforwardâ
Is that like word or almost like weird?
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# @"rejj"#455
The most obviously American pronunciation I can think of, and I have no idea if it is regional or not, is the dropping of a leading H. Eg, saying âerbâ for âherbâ.
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# @TomoftheFog
>
@âDaveedNooâ#503 rest has been slowly buffered away by television.
Iâve often thought this has had an effect on accents and how people speak. When an entire nation hears a single accent, say on a nationwide program does it have an effect on all the people listening and cause changes? I know growing up certain TV shows and the way they spoke could be heard with new words joining the language and also new pronounciation too.
And so everyone knows, whenever someone types how something is pronounced I do say it out loud. I do like âBeehhgâ. So these are American words, pronounced with I hope a pretty easy to understand London accent. Not cockney, I donât sound like Michael Caine.
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# @daveedNoo
MoH I do, I live in Madison which is about 70 minutes away. My folks are from Milwaukee and I went to college there as well. Curious if it is related to the breweries/bottling facilities.
I have heard people in the state often mention pop but we never called it that growing up.
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# @"MoH"#1454
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@TomoftheFog When an entire nation hears a single accent, say on a nationwide program does it have an effect on all the people listening and cause changes?
i say we all bring back the mid-atlantic accent.
@"DaveedNoo"#503 thatâs the leading theory. unrelated but i love milwuakee. if i ended up back in the midwest, thatâs where iâd wanna be.
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# @TomoftheFog
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@âMoHâ#1454 genuinely love your enthusiasm for these mundane aspects of culture, especially since you seem so well traveled.
Thank you for saying that, was really nice of you. I really do find how people talk fascinating! Iâve been lucky enough to both travel for fun and work all over the world, and the last six years working for one of the worlds bigger companies and dealing with people in every country you can imagine! I donât see the words people use as mudane, far from it. In fact those words/slang/accents are what make people different and thatâs awesome! Iâve learned so much about people from this accidental thread about scarfs and hope to learn so much more just by using the most powerful tool we have - conversation! I didnât know âtonicâ was a thing, that Americans really notice how Brits say Taco and more people like me hate âfrewâ! And Iâve been pleased to share the adventures I am having as a father bringing up two boys who speak both French and English and me being their main teacher in a language people say I speak wrong!
Iâm surprised âflat outâ was a new one, I honestly thought it was used in America! I use it all the time and have never had an American client or colleague question what it means. Does anyone else know of it?
@"rejj"#455 Thatâs 100% the French that have done that! They drop Hâs all the time and itâs something that Americans picked up on for some reason. When thereâs a vowel before the H, itâs totally lost, like lâhotel and the apostrophe does all the work. Itâs because of how French likes to flow and extra vowels make it sound bad.
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@âMoHâ#1454 i say we all bring back the mid-atlantic accent.
Can you give me an example of that one please? I think I know what you mean, but arenât completely sure.
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# @"rejj"#455
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@TomoftheFog Iâm surprised âflat outâ was a new one, I honestly thought it was used in America! I use it all the time and have never had an American client or colleague question what it means. Does anyone else know of it?
I was about to say that this is common here in Aus, but then I scrolled up and re-read the context and saw that the original mention of this was about an Australian saying it!
I have no idea if this is specific to here or not
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# @"MoH"#1454
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@TomoftheFog think old american movies from the 40âs or soâhereâs a good clip of it.
it famously was a manufactured accent that people used for the camera, which is goofy but also kinda cool lol
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# @TomoftheFog
@"rejj"#455 Iâve always thought of it as a global thing, but have heard it in Aus when I lived there and grew up watching Neighbours!
@"MoH"#1454 So basically Fallout! I do like that accent just as it enunciates so well, but I could handle it in small bursts. Iâve seen film reels of news from 40s America and that was enough of a dose!
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# @"HyggeState"#1651
@"rejj"#455 I say flat out as an American, but I was a strange child who was fascinated with Australian TV, and I picked up âflat out like a lizard drinkingâ from Steve Irwin.
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# @"DaveedNoo"#503
we say âflat outâ as in âthatâs flat out wrong!â
@TomoftheFog I donât know how it affected my parents but when I was a kid it felt like most accents were made fun of so it was better to sound like the folks on TV. I actually really miss wild weird out there accents and voices. Watching old media you hear the craziest stuff, why donât we all talk like that? I suspect back in the day a lot of people would purposely talk deeper than they naturally do for whatever reason and it lead to some interesting voices.
@"MoH"#1454 Milwaukee rules! Especially in the summer. Underrated city.
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# @"Dunkr"#78
This thread reminds me of the Speech Accent Archive. Itâs a fun old website to poke around and hear many people read the same paragraph which contains all the sounds in English. Maybe we could upload clips of ourselves reading it here.
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Please call Stella. Ask her to bring these things with her from the store: Six spoons of fresh snow peas, five thick slabs of blue cheese, and maybe a snack for her brother Bob. We also need a small plastic snake and a big toy frog for the kids. She can scoop these things into three red bags, and we will go meet her Wednesday at the train station.
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# @TomoftheFog
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@âDaveedNooâ#503 we say âflat outâ as in âthatâs flat out wrong!â
Ironically we say âstraight up wrongâ! It sounds like flat out is a phrase which has double meanings depending where you use it! Another silly way to talk to the ever growing list!
I agree with the idea of sounding like people on TV. In the UK thereâs a huge range of regional TV shows and also news is broadcast locally - mostly the BBC does this. So you would have the news, then a local variant as well, so different accents for different places.
With TV shows growing in popularity, mostly soap operas which were set in different cities (Eastenders in East London, Coronation St. in Manchester and Emmerdale in Yorkshire) they grew and grew in exposure. But when I grew up, the very early 80s most TV presenters generally spoke with a clear almost generic accent. Iâll try to find a good example of what it was like!
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# @"yeso"#385
I have questions for British people:
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# @TomoftheFog
@"yeso"#385 yes and no.
Alan Partridge is from Norwich (Not Steve Coogan whoâs from Manchester) and that accent is a bit pushed but is pretty localish, with a tv presenter twist.
The Gumbys as theyâre called are just plain weird but if I had to pin an accent Iâm not going to at risk of offending people! But Iâve never heard anyone speak like that.
Partridge.. Well A-ha!
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# @"exodus"#3
@"rootfifthoctave"#107 I suspect the answer to this is quite boring - I suspect itâs one of those where itâs just changing to an âeasier to sayâ variant over time, and linking up with pronunciation of âtowardâ which is basically âtoredâ at this point.
One of these that Iâve held on to is I pronounce February properly with both Rs. Feb-rew-airy. The current pronunciation of âFeb-you-airyâ bugs the heck out of me but itâs a lost battle, and also stupid, because I donât say âwed-ness-dayâ either
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# @"rootfifthoctave"#107
@TomoftheFog more like âwordâ but slightly narrower on the vowel, âwurrdâ but not quite âwerrdâ
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# @"exodus"#3
One I just found out about two weeks ago is the Baltimore accent, some of which sounds âfakeâ to my ears even though I know itâs not. The âAaron earned and iron urnâ thing makes sense as an accent adaptation but itâs the pronunciation of âtoâ and âschoolâ which is surprising to me, and itâs hard to imagine where that came from.
(Antillese note - there was a video here.)
Oh, unrelated but @TomoftheFog I think the reason people (including me) keep reading your name as âTom the frogâ instead of âTom of the fogâ is in part because of your animal avatar? Thatâs a guess but now that Iâve seen other people do it Iâm starting to suspect!
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# @TomoftheFog
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@âexodusâ#3 The current pronunciation of âFeb-you-airyâ bugs the heck out of me but itâs a lost battle,
At least itâs a short month!
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@ârootfifthoctaveâ#107 more like âwordâ but slightly narrower on the vowel, âwurrdâ but not quite âwerrdâ
I can hear the âforwerdâ version more but with more of an e than a u. But clearly more like word than ward.
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# @"DaveedNoo"#503
@"exodus"#3 donât worry we are all saying FebREWairy over here.
The laziness thing is interesting. I have a hard time annunciating soft âgâ? sounds unless I concentrate on it and I think its laziness. âSongâ might as well be âSonnâ for me. Same with âTongueâ and âTonnâ. That unge noise just doesnât come naturally.
Whatâs the deal with Iron? I naturally said I - Ron. Until all my friends in high school were like âitâs I-urn dude.â And I was like I donât believe you but okay.
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# @TomoftheFog
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@âDaveedNooâ#503 Whatâs the deal with Iron? I naturally said I - Ron. Until all my friends in high school were like âitâs I-urn dude.â And I was like I donât believe you but okay.
I always thought it was with a very very soft R so almost sounds like âionâ. I say it like that but apparently I drop the Rs like a mic!
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# @"rootfifthoctave"#107
a fun thing i donât hear enough, thereâs some places in the english midlands that use âusâ for most if not all first-person references. the midlands is interesting, you can drive 10 minutes to the next town over and theyâll have a totally different accent.
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# @TomoftheFog
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@âexodusâ#3 Oh, unrelated but @TomoftheFog I think the reason people (including me) keep reading your name as âTom the frogâ instead of âTom of the fogâ is in part because of your animal avatar? Thatâs a guess but now that Iâve seen other people do it Iâm starting to suspect!
Makes a lot of sense. I think with the lack of spaces itâs easy to misread and yes Pato doesnât help either.
Call me anything you want but donât call me late for dinner!
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# @"hellomrkearns"#99
@TomoftheFog another good example
(Antillese note - missing video here).
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# @"exodus"#3
@"DaveedNoo"#503 soft g is one I support fully, but the g is very much implied to me. Son and song are very different when I say it. But when you harden the g at the end it sounds like âson-guhâ with the âguhâ being incredibly short.
Most of the folks I know who forgo the hard and soft g in an âINGâ wind up saying âraceenâ or âdriveenâ instead.
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# @TomoftheFog
@"rootfifthoctave"#107 They also use our when talking in the first person about someone: our mam, our kid (Noel Gallagher always talked about Liam in this context, mostly as he was the older one). I have heard people say âdonât leave us hereâ when talking about themselves. Youâre right, itâs a more Northern than Southern thing in England.
@"hellomrkearns"#99 Thanks for sharing that, I wonât lie I didnât watch all of it! Maybe itâs my ears or Iâm tired but they both had what sounded like an Australian twang when they spoke. Not always, but it was quite nasal at times and I heard it lingering in the back of her throat. I always though New England accents where more in how much the mouth moved to create the sounds?
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# @"Punzai"#313
@"yeso"#385 Alan is an odd one as, like Tom said, Coogan is from Manchester and Alan from Norwich (Naaarch) but he doesnât really have a Norfolk (narrrrfuk) accent. Itâs more a sort of generic sports presenter voice. If anything his Mancunian accent comes through at times like in â[Iâve pierced my foot on a spiiiike!](https://youtu.be/hj63LflLIwk?si=1eV6k2vn73T9U4nm)â Thatâs very Manchester sounding to my London ears.
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# @"yeso"#385
is Alan like a type of guy though? Are there people who dress and behave that way
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# @"powderooze"#1699
@"yeso"#385 100% yes
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# @"yeso"#385
oh my god
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# @"HyggeState"#1651
Iâm a Boston transplant, but if you all want to see how I grew up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03iwAY4KlIU
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# @"antillese"#59
OK, post like, 100-something ish can resume now.
Happy new year!
