Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Discussion and Speculation Thread (SPOILERS)

In the interest of keeping the Final Fantasy Thread a place where we can all talk about Stranger of Paradise and the Yahoo!(?) version of Final Fantasy II, let's move all speculation about and eventual discussion of Rebirth (and its recently released demo) over here.

I have moved several posts from the FF thread, although they were somewhat intertwined with discussions of Advent Children and Crisis Core. Apologies for pulling these threads apart but it had to be done, you see:

I'm not watching any trailers or playing any demos, avoiding all spoilers… but I have plenty of speculation and stuff to say here! like for example:

FFVIIRB is going to be:

  • - interesting.
  • - fun. materia system and ATB based modern AAA action rpg
  • - beautiful. probably will be the best graphics I've ever seen. the flashy battles that can pause in the middle of the action + camera mode (or at least a camera that moves when battles are in slowmo)
  • - emotional.
  • - have aerith, tifa, barret, red xiii, cid, yuffie.
  • - have cool swords and stuff.
  • - midgar zolom (undoubtably you'd still be able to defeat it with it's own nuke-like ability with the enemy skill materia, which is the coolest thing ever)
  • - bugenhagen. aka environmentalist hippie version of tellah the sage. he definitely knows how to cast at least comet.
  • - chocobos. FFVIIRB is going to be chocobos.
  • it could have just those things and I'd be pretty satisfied.

    So I just finished reading FF7: The Kids Are Alright and I‘m currently reading through FF7 Remake: Two Pasts, both written by Kazushige Nojima and Kyrie is a very important in the previous novel (that was released in english in, I believe, 2016).

    I can’t say I really think she‘ll be a super important character in Rebirth, but I’m thinking maybe she‘ll be part of some fairly involved sidequests.

    I DO think that the main character of that novel’s mom will be a pretty important character though.

    I think it‘s very likely they’ll go a lot deeper into what happened at Nibelheim after Sephiroth was a real silly guy there.

    While I‘m sure reading the novels aren’t needed to enjoy the game, it'll provide me with some fun little “Leonardo DiCaprio determinedly pointing at a tv” moments.

    I also predict that we'll see Cloud with his shirt off.

    I am super hype for this game. FF7R was way better than it had any right to be. I enjoyed the Intergrade Yuffie DLC plenty and I have :100:% bought in to the marketing hype train. Sorry folks. I know I have a cool exterior, but I am not immune to military-grade marketing when it comes to Cloud, Cid, Tifa, Red, Aerith, Yuffie, Barret, Vincent, Cait Sith, et. al.


    @“mtvcribs”#p152569 I also predict that we’ll see Cloud with his shirt off.

    I am a straight cis het dude, and if you can't chill with this, I'm not sure we can hang.

    I’m so stoked to run around with my REAL buds in this game. Sorry FFXV guys, y’all suck!!! Barrett is here!!!

    @“sabertoothalex”#p152579 I have a sticker from the end of Intergrade with Yuffie riding a chocobo that I use in chats. Most of the time people are like, “what?” or ignore it. But occasionally a real one knows what‘s up and how FFXV wasn’t that good.

    The marketing for RB would only distract from my inlaid natural excitement and anticipation.

    The marketing from a year or two ago is all I needed. I played Episode Intermission last year and it was so good.

    @"antillese"#p152580 who would see Yuffie riding a chocobo and think "what?".. it's yuffie riding a chocobo



    Sometimes I send this to friends who haven’t played the game. Not sure how I ended up with friends who don’t know about Yuffie, but it’s a good excuse to educate them.

    I‘m SO here for the big dumb game. I laughed out loud when I played the demo and you can ||sit at Tifa’s piano and play a dumb clunky piano playing minigame.|| A bunch of dumb clunky minigames are a defining trait of FFVII for me so I love all of them, even the dumb switch pulling minigame from Remake

    [color=green]↑↑[Moved from Final Fantasy Thread by request of poster]↑↑[/color]

    Putting out here again my SPOILER ADJACENT theory about what is Going On with the FFVIIR trilogy and the whole potential for things to go on to a sort of divergent canon, just for posterity‘s sake and because I’ll be playing this upcoming treasure with all of this theory in mind.

    Also this contains CATASTROPHIC SPOILERS, but for _Final Fantasy VII_ (just in case! You never know) and _Final Fantasy VII Remake,_ as in, the _first_ game in the remake trilogy, not the upcoming game (which I don't have spoiler knowledge of, I haven't even been watching trailers):


    The whole stuff with the whispers or the crazy ghost guys and the breaking of Fate with that goofy boss fight with Sephiroth at the end was ALL A RED HERRING.


    The major established canon events from the first game, especially, especially, with regards to the death of Aerith, will absolutely not change. It will not be reversible. They will let it hit with the full weight, and they will not change things significantly in this regard in the third game. There are going to be additional major events, seems pretty clear they're going to flesh out the role of Wutai in the narrative, but this is really more about expanding on the source material, not taking it in any speculative alternate directions.


    The explanation for the weird ghost guys, the teases of divergent canons or timelines, and of Aerith‘s higher or even prescient levels of awareness of the events and their broader contexts in the events of Final Fantasy VII Remake all have an explanation, and it’s a clever diegetic change in perspective of the narrative of the game so far. All of the events in the Remake, and, likely, of Rebirth, and eventually most of the events of the third game, and if I remember correctly this is not the case in the source material, will be revealed to be (original FFVII spoilers ahead) ||diegetically been occurring within Cloud‘s subconscious as he is adrift in the Lifestream. The weird ghosts are the will of the planet or whatever, yes, but not as some kind of fourth wall tickling metaphor to tease a divergent canon, it’s the will of the planet forcing Cloud to confront the recent events of his life as they truly happened, not as he wished them to happen or not as if he had run away from adversity or from giving a shit about the planet or the people around him. Thus their presence during the events in Midgard, when Cloud was perhaps most willing to walk away and retreat in a major way. Perhaps if they reappear in Rebirth it will be in similar moments of Cloud feeling doubt or wanting to give up.||


    How does this explain Aerith‘s higher level of awareness and prescience? Well, Cloud is reliving the experiences he’s had since he came to Midgar, but if he is also physically adrift in the Lifestream, he is also where Aerith is, since, well, she was killed by that point in the narrative. As an Ancient, or perhaps because she died recently, or perhaps a bit of both, she may have particular abilities in retaining her own consciousness after returning to the Lifestream. So, from Cloud‘s perspective, he is reliving recent events and interacting with Aerith as he remembers the events happening, but also, she is with him in the Lifestream and communicating with him in critical moments where she can encourage and guide him to face the truth of everything. It’s her way of saying goodbye to him in the present. Then following Cloud recovering after that, the events of the story will diegetically return to the present and proceed in real time.


    Maybe this theory makes me one of those You Must Be Really Fun At Parties, kinds of stick in the mud guys when it comes to fan theories and reinterpretations of source material. But honestly I think this is genius, and if I‘m correct on all this, it’s anything but a copout. How do you Remake/Rebirth what might be the most famous twist in videogame history? Do you reverse it and make it a speculative work on an alternate timeline? Or… do you find a way to instill Real Hope in that being a real possibility, that you can actually prevent her death or reverse it, and then gracefully descend from above and run it through with a 15ft katana?


    It‘s an incredible way for them to have their cake and to eat it too. The challenge was not to reinterpret or reconceptualize Aerith’s death with a wish fulfillment alternative canon or just sparkling production values, such that we get something entirely new or the old thing just in a fresh coat of paint that is just as impactful as the original. The challenge was always to honor the creative choice of the source material by killing Aerith again in the exact same way, in the context of a world where virtually everyone who knows anything about the game knows what‘s coming from the very beginning. You gotta preserve the twist, not just a shocking event in the narrative that isn’t going to be shocking at all anymore because of the real world context, you gotta find a way to preserve it as a twist of a knife. Or 15ft katana.

    @“Gaagaagiins”#p152615 this is what I mean when I say FFVIIR is also already FF6 Remake. And people don’t get it. Piano playing mini game?— one of the most classic FF mini game/sidequests. It’s in V, I think III, and VI?


    @“treefroggy”#p152568 beautiful. probably will be the best graphics I’ve ever seen. the flashy battles that can pause in the middle of the action + camera mode (or at least a camera that moves when battles are in slowmo)

    IQ and character models are notably lower quality than in 7RMintergrade, due to the switch to a Ubisoft-style Open World for 7RB. Fortunately (or at least that’s good enough for me), they use different, higher spec character models for the cutscenes so most people should not even notice.

    My bigger concern, personally, is I haven’t yet caught up on all the additional lore and characters injected in The First Soldier and Ever Crisis…


    @“treefroggy”#p152698 I say FFVIIR is also already FF6 Remake.

    No blasphemy in this thread pls

    @“◉◉maru”#p152716 ok but I already know from trailers from last year that it will probably be the best graphics I’ve seen. I don’t usually play new games unless they are from software, and every time I play one of those it’s the best graphics I’ve ever seen, just to give you an idea of what a relatively low bar that is. Whether or not the graphics are technically worse tech doesn’t really matter, what matters is the final product.


    @“◉◉maru”#p152716 My bigger concern, personally, is I haven’t yet caught up on all the additional lore and characters injected in The First Soldier and Ever Crisis…

    I’m blissfully unaware, highly recommend


    @“◉◉maru”#p152716 No blasphemy in this thread pls

    if you want it, it’s there. you will find the feelings. But no one understands what I’m trying to say. I might dig up years old posts on the subject of VIIR/B at some point.

    i‘m not posting anything spoilery but i found the demo to be a bit of a bummer. not enough crunchy combat. the cutscenes are good, cloud and sephiroth’s voices do a good job of distinguishing their younger selves.

    having at long last read berserk, it's cool to think of sephi/cloud as having the griffith/guts dynamic


    @“rootfifthoctave”#p152753 i’m not posting anything spoilery but i found the demo to be a bit of a bummer. not enough crunchy combat.

    It was a bit of a bummer but I think that's also because it's going to serve as the game's tutorial/refresher. I played _FFVIIR-1_ all the way back in 2020, and even _Intergrade_ promptly all the way back in 2021, so I felt I needed the refresher. Didn't need it _that_ much, but... yeah. I'm hoping that the full game will offer at least some more interesting challenge content than we got in _Remake._

    I wonder when the second phase of the demo is going to be unlocked? We might have some crunchier stuff in there, or at least some delicious morsels of a different variety.


    @“Gaagaagiins”#p152762 I wonder when the second phase of the demo is going to be unlocked? We might have some crunchier stuff in there, or at least some delicious morsels of a different variety.

    Apparently the 21st. It will also not carry over to the full game, so, I think I'll probably skip it.

    Apparently I completely missed Tifa’s house in the demo including the chance to get yelled at for trying to find her thermal underwear. So maybe I’ll just end up playing the segment in the full game after all…

    @“2501”#p152772 yes… you have to restore the timeline and re-establish the true canon

    Yuffies Moogle outfit that made everyone (except for me) upset is like two characters for the price of one. It’s final fantasy vi remake now because I get to play as mog.

    They’re giving us whatever they can